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9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

Article about: I found these in Eastern European forrest, ~50 km. from 1944 German defensive line. Whole place was littered with shrapnel of warious calibur artillery shells (and probably even aviation bom

  1. #1
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    Default 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    I found these in Eastern European forrest, ~50 km. from 1944 German defensive line. Whole place was littered with shrapnel of warious calibur artillery shells (and probably even aviation bombs). There is something like U-form trench (lenght ~10 m), with fragments of completely rotten tarpaulin in it, bullets were stuck in a parapet, 20 cm. deep, all within 1m. square. No cases around.

    There are 8 of them, in quite good condition, you can even see red paint.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Maybe it is possible to distinguish, whether they are WWII-wintage, or modern, left there by some idiot with a Glock? I have no evidence, that trench and shrapnell really are from WWII, as some locals say it all may be post-war, remains of improvised soviet artillery training ground. Good condition of bullets support this theory, but again, they were found in a sand - it preserves metals well.

    Are there any differences between WWII-era german Parabellums and modern ones? Can these bullets be called war relics? I'd really appreciate any help!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    I believe these are not WW2 as painted case mouth seals were not common on German WW2 9mm,see attached picture,ask your question on the website I PM`d you.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    JEDEM DAS SEINE

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    Whilst these are not regular issue German 08 projectiles due to the case sealant ring, they may well be RWS or Geco made rounds supplied to the SS through their own supply organisation. Although the headstamps are different they would both have been made by Geco (Gustav Genschow) as there was an agreement in place from the mid 1930s that Geco manufactured all RWS pistol ammunition.

    These rounds are similar to No.6 in zwerge's post above. They were quasi commercial rounds only supplied to police and othe paramilitary forces and were not used by the regular Wermacht.

    Regards
    TonyE
    British Military Smallarms and Ammunition
    Collector, Researcher and Pedant
    https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    Thanks Tony,so what sort of test would be necessary to determine what era these are from?
    JEDEM DAS SEINE

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    Thank you very much! Although, No. 6 don't seem to have copper jacket, and the ones I found, as far as I can see, have it. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, you helped a lot!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    Have a look at the answers to Valkas's question that he posted on the IAA Forum. John and Lew know far more about German ammo than I, since my speciality as you all know is British military.

    John is one of the most experienced collectors of auto pistol cartridges around and Lew is the the guru of 9mm P.

    Regards
    TonyE
    British Military Smallarms and Ammunition
    Collector, Researcher and Pedant
    https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 9x19 Parabellum bullets: WWII era or modern?

    Guys at IAA sorted it out. Most likely this is modern Czech ammunition, either commercial or military, it was imported to my country in 90's. Definately not WWII.

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