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All might not be what it seems....

Article about: Just to add to this, the news story is far from the reality and the statement given by Specialist Auctions is quite misleading in the fact that it suggests that BOCN monitor whats for sale,

  1. #11

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    Just to add to this, the news story is far from the reality and the statement given by Specialist Auctions is quite misleading in the fact that it suggests that BOCN monitor whats for sale, which is not the case. I've copied and pasted a quote from Specialists Auctions statement and part of a message I got from BOCN's admin below.

    "'We also have specialists from the British Ordnance Collectors Association who monitor what is being listed for sale." - Specialist Auctions

    "I am not happy with the misleading statement allegedly made by specialist auctions to the press, it implys BOCN has specialists who monitor whats on their site.
    This could be mis-interpretted as its our fault, passing blame for any possible mishaps onto us. We do not monitor any websites, we are not an officialy recognised organisation, we are a specialist collectors website. We are not associated in any way with spec auctions or any other sites." - BOCN Admin

    Regarding whether the device in question was explosive or not, the seller of it (also a member of BOCN) has said that he had completely stripped the mortar bomb down and photographed it. He was sure that there was nothing dangerous about it. I personally think that it was something else that exploded and the mortar bomb got the blame either out of confusion, or to cover up the fact the kid had something he shouldnt have such as something he picked up on an MOD training area whilst on exercise with the ATC.

    Thanks

    Danny

  2. #12
    ?

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    That makes a lot of sense Danny, my cadets had to be monitered closely when on training areas, even some of the guys in the TA would pick "stuff" up and discretely hideaway in their kit, when out on Thetford one time one of my cadets was seen to pick something up and put it in his pack, i made him open the pack and inside was a parachute flare that had failed to ignite, that and his pack were destroyed in situ by a BD team member, but unfortunately the mere fact that the story was published gives the powers that be the excuse to enforce stricter regulations on the collecting community when it concerns ordnance

  3. #13

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    Quote by GasMasksUK View Post
    Just to add to this, the news story is far from the reality and the statement given by Specialist Auctions is quite misleading in the fact that it suggests that BOCN monitor whats for sale, which is not the case. I've copied and pasted a quote from Specialists Auctions statement and part of a message I got from BOCN's admin below.

    "'We also have specialists from the British Ordnance Collectors Association who monitor what is being listed for sale." - Specialist Auctions

    "I am not happy with the misleading statement allegedly made by specialist auctions to the press, it implys BOCN has specialists who monitor whats on their site.
    This could be mis-interpretted as its our fault, passing blame for any possible mishaps onto us. We do not monitor any websites, we are not an officialy recognised organisation, we are a specialist collectors website. We are not associated in any way with spec auctions or any other sites." - BOCN Admin

    Regarding whether the device in question was explosive or not, the seller of it (also a member of BOCN) has said that he had completely stripped the mortar bomb down and photographed it. He was sure that there was nothing dangerous about it. I personally think that it was something else that exploded and the mortar bomb got the blame either out of confusion, or to cover up the fact the kid had something he shouldnt have such as something he picked up on an MOD training area whilst on exercise with the ATC.

    Thanks

    Danny
    Very interesting Danny. I am sure Spotter will be thrilled at being linked to the case......NOT !

    Given the injuries caused, it seems to be a relatively small explosion that took place, probably from a fuse gain. I am positive that if it did indeed come from a BOCN member that the gain would have been removed prior to the item being sold, as they are an extremely responsible group. No member of BOCN would sell anything that contained any explosive material. I also am inclined to believe the mortar is a smoke screen for something else, possibly something like a 20mm head or similar. One can but hope the young man has learnt his lesson and that he gives the items he collects the respect they deserve, AND that he improves his knowledge to ensure no future recurrence.

    Steve T

  4. #14

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    I would like to personaly thank WRF its moderators and Admin for posting my message,The press can be a useful but also dangerous tool for us in the hobby wether its collecting militaria or ordnance .Its not worth speculating what happened as this can also cause problems..Only one person knows the 100% facts behind what happened here but i think he may have a little trouble typing his explanation of the incident at the moment
    many thanks guys
    your help is really appreciated
    Allan (spotter)

  5. #15

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    Just for interests sake, there are some more photographs on this news story, one of the photographs shows a brass item that I assume was the piece that apparently caused the damage.

    Local News - Heart Northants

    Thanks

    Danny

  6. #16

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    somethings not sitting right here can someone explain how a HE (high explosive) only made such small holes doesn't make sense im starting to think it wasn't the mortar but something else a lot smaller that maybe he picked up all a bit odd.......

  7. #17

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    The brass item is the lower part of the fuse. From the photo's of the damage to the desk it can be seen that the fuse was in contact with the desk, facing downwards to cause the hole blown through it. The injuries to the lads fingers suggest he was holding it there with his thumb, index and second fingers. I wonder if he bought the fuse down sharply on the desk (perhaps to remove something inside that he could see) or maybe even struck it with an object like a hammer or suchlike?

    It's ironic to note that in photo No.1, a book can be seen on the desk entitled 'I'm not scared.' I think he may have been just a little bit when the fuse went off....

    Anyway, whatever, the truth will eventually out.

    Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #18
    ?

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    I have to agree with Ned, the main "blast" is directed downwards into the table which suggests that it was in contact with the surface at the time of detonation, whether it was a piece from the mortar shell or not will have to be determined, but im thinking it was possibly a seperate item although im not sure it was the brass object either as there appears to be no damage to it or blackening, i daresay the forensic examination will be able to pinpoint the exact cause

  9. #19

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    Quote by davejb View Post
    I have to agree with Ned, the main "blast" is directed downwards into the table which suggests that it was in contact with the surface at the time of detonation, whether it was a piece from the mortar shell or not will have to be determined, but im thinking it was possibly a seperate item although im not sure it was the brass object either as there appears to be no damage to it or blackening, i daresay the forensic examination will be able to pinpoint the exact cause
    There is no way the HE mortar round went off (he'd be dead) and i find it hard to believe anyone would forget to deactivate the main fuse. There is always the possibility it was something from the tail end of the round, perhaps the ignition cartridge (the primer for the ignition charge) was still live? This would explain his burns as it is designed to blast through holes in its outer wall, in order to set of the main propellant charge.

    He could, of course, have just been messing around with shotgun cartridges or something

    Rob

  10. #20

    Default Re: All might not be what it seems....

    again guys as said before its best not to try and speculate what happened here as we can assume allsorts which could cause distress and damage to peoples names and reputations,,I will say though ive seen photos of the item when it was originally for sale on the auction site,it clearly has no complete cartridge in the tail,,the burster is empty,the mortar round is empty, If by remote chance it was an internal component that was still present deep in the fuze In my opinion the fault would not lie with the seller it would lie with whichever govt organisation (spanish ?) originaly declared the item was safe and free from explosives or other harmful compositions and released it from their armoury into the public as inert surplus,
    Again this is NOT FACT ive just been reading deeply into all the news articles and going through tech drawings of this type of mortar round and fuze.,like i said before only one person knows whats happened and he learnt the hard nasty way..If buying ANY inert ordnance if it is not visually inert e.g sectioned,get the seller to show you it FULLY stripped,DO NOT DO IT YOURSELF if they wont or cant strip it FULLY dont bother walk away,it just isnt worth getting hurt or killed over a 30 piece of metal

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