help ID a round

[skyboy09]

Greeting fellas

I found two rounds dated 1915 in a trench that I assume was used in both WW1 and WW2, because In it I also found german rounds, and because the older rounds had an extraction rim, not grove like the WW2 casings.
Specifically the ww1 head stamps read (from the 9 o'clock position clockwise) 19/XI/15/CR (superimposed) and the round itself has that elongated Carcano-like bullet. Who is the manufacturer according to the superimposed CR letters? And am I right in my assumption of a trench seeing two world wars or was this trench perhaps captured from or seeized by WW2 Russian troops using 30 some year old ammo?

[Slick Rick]

A picture and dimensions would help considerably in providing a positive ID.

[emileverbunt]

Where is this trench situated? What front?

From your discription it is virtually impossible to indentify the rounds. Also it would seem very unlikely that a trench has been used in two wars.

I look forward to photographs.
Cheers,
Emile

[skyboy09]

Phew, made it w/ some photographs.
The trench-actually now that i think of it, a foxhole, is in a village in Romania inside former Austro Hungarian enemy territory that established a front that spanned the whole country more or less coinciding with the Eastern Carpathian Mountain Chain. Personally, I've only heard of WW2 having passed through the area but that's just because none of the older locals are around anymore to confirm this. But I'm still thinking it is ww1 because I've found many other casings in the village dated 1912, 1915, 1916 etc. Even the powder grains from the "ww1" rounds are circular, not squared as in the WW2 rounds i've opened.

The round measures 78 mm in length (plus or minus a few mm due to the rusted bullet, and I believe 13 mm case diameter -not extraction rim diameter). The headstamp picture is from a different casing because I couldn't get the details to come out legible on camera on the round in question; however, the casing was found in the same area and is identical.

Hope this helps as I'm pretty curious myself; I couldn't find this manufacturers hallmark anywhere on the internet so far.

P.S. also found a few casing dating 1898 and 1899 with the same superimposed CR? Could they have also been used in the war, almost 20 years after manufacture?

[emileverbunt]

This is an Austrian 8x50,5R Mannlicher round. Used in the M95 rifle.

The CR probably reads as GR = Georg Roth an ammunitions manufacturer.

On the Romanian front you are bound to find Romanian rounds: 6,5x53,5R as well. These also have the "conical" bullet. This bullet shape was usual until the adoption of a "spitzer" bullet.

The bullets with the extraction groove probably are German 7,92 mm rounds. The R in the caliber means rimmed as opposed to "grooved"

Cheers,
Emile

[skyboy09]

Thank you; it looks like that area has seen two wars then!

[emileverbunt]

Rimmed and grooved casing were the norm in WW1 as well as in WW2.

Hungary, The Netherlands, Great Britain and Commonwealth, The Soviet Union, Romania and some other used rimmed rounds in WW1 and 2. Russian designed machineguns and sniper rifles still use the rimmed round!!

The grooved case was used abundantly in WW1 and 2 by Germany, Italy and the USA among others.

Cheers,
Emile

[skyboy09]

One more question that I have:

given the manufacturing year of the round, is it possibly or most likely to have been used in WW1 even though rimmed bullets were used later on in WW2? Or was it common for austro hungarian bullets 25-30 years after being manufactured, and after the austro hungarian stopped existing, to be used in other weapons or even in M95 rifles in the hands of other allies/axis powers?

Basically, I'd just like to know for sure from what world war it was; I personally prefer WW1 relics more than ww2 and going by the manufacturing year and that it was a Austro hungarian round (and that they empire broke apart in 1918) i'm hoping it is ww1. Any ideas?