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Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

Article about: Hi, I was having a clear out and found what I believe to be a rifle cartridge, I discovered it buried deep in the ground around 1980 in the Bermondsey area of London. I was wondering if anyo

  1. #1

    Default Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Hi, I was having a clear out and found what I believe to be a rifle cartridge, I discovered it buried deep in the ground around 1980 in the Bermondsey area of London. I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on its identity. The markings on the bottom, although hard to read I think say: (top) IART DE or F (bottom) IVIS.R, the number 1 on the left and 11 on the right. It stands around 7.5cm tall and base is around 1.5cm. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	526776Click image for larger version. 

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    Any help would be most appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    I think it is a French Lebel rifle cartridge. WW1 ish? The calibre should be 8mm. One important thing is your round seems to be live, which is illegal to own without a firearms licence. I imagine it is an 'obsolete calibre' in the eyes of the law, I'm not sure if that would make it OK to keep. Somebody else might be able to answer you on that.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    8mm lebel ball made in the UK 1911
    chris

  4. #4

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Wow, dated as early as that, two questions exist now, where to go for a valuation, and the question of it being 'live', I obviously don't want to get into trouble with the law for having it. Are there any specialists anyone knows of that would be able to advise further?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Always thought it was a weird looking round this one.

  6. #6
    ?

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    It looks like it would take down an elephant!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    One freakish looking round, that is

  8. #8
    ?

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Quote by cricketchris1944 View Post
    8mm lebel ball made in the UK 1911
    chris
    I am sorry but that is quite wrong.

    It is an 8mm Lebel, but it is the early Balle M and it was made in France. It is not on the British obsolete calibre list either.

    "ART D" is the case type and it was made by "VIS", the "Atelier de Chargement de Vincennes" at the Parc d'Artillerie de Place de Vincennes. The metal for the case was supplied by "R", "Rugles, Usune des Trefilerie et Laminoirs du Havre" in the first qusrter "1" of 1911 "11".

    It is hard to tell from the picture, but the bullet looks like it has been partially pulled from the case.

    Regards
    TonyE
    Last edited by TonyE; 06-18-2013 at 10:31 AM.
    British Military Smallarms and Ammunition
    Collector, Researcher and Pedant
    https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/

  9. #9

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Yes, its a French made 8X51R Lebel round, a bottle catrigde.
    The Lebel rifle was used by the Germans as Beute Waffen, both models, and called 8mm Karabiner 551(f) and 8mm Karabiner 553(f).
    I have found loads of these funny looking rounds through the years.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10

    Default Re: Help wanted in identifying this cartridge

    Likely to have been souvenired by a British WW1 soldier as there would be no reason for it to be in Britain otherwise-round wasn't used in any Brit weapon, even for emergency use in WW1 and given its age not likely to have been around for WW2-even then could only have come across the Channel with evacuated French troops in 1940.
    It is the first of the small calibre (in comparison to the previous .45/11mm or so types) smokeless powder rifle cartridges-an interesting find.

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