ID Help on German Rifle Cartridges

[lithgow]

The round is usually referred to as the 8mm Lebel but as you said was used in a variety of French weapons.

[PREST1]

Yes . it's called the 8mm Lebel but there are several users :

France :
Italy: Saint Etienne machine-gun in 1917-18
Spain: Lebel rifles obtained from France were used by Republican forces during the Spanish Civil War.
United States: Hotchkiss machine-gun and Chauchat machine-rifle in 1917-18
Greece: Saint Etienne machine gun in 1917-1940

[cricketchris1944]

Yes . it's called the 8mm Lebel but there are several users :

France :
Italy: Saint Etienne machine-gun in 1917-18
Spain: Lebel rifles obtained from France were used by Republican forces during the Spanish Civil War.
United States: Hotchkiss machine-gun and Chauchat machine-rifle in 1917-18
Greece: Saint Etienne machine gun in 1917-1940

Very good info,thank you for that.
I think any 8mm that was use for a machine gun had a cross on the butt.

[Steve T]

Ok I have had a really good hunt through my headstamp databases and can only find two references., one for the headstamp 'S' and one for 'SI'. Both are linked to an unknown factory in France !

Oh well....I tried

Anyway, what I do know is that these munitions were not from WW1. Reason being the '35' is almost certainly the date, making them 1935 cartridges. Difficult to have been used in WW1 !! The 3 is either the 'mark' of the cartridge or the batch number in production.

Chances are these were used as captured 1940's loot.

Hope that helps and, by the way, a very nice find !

Cheers

Steve T

[Redgemak]

Everybody

this is a french round specially made for the Lebel 1886 rifle, the ring is the giveaway.
The magazine of the rifle mod. 1886 called "Lebel" was under the barrel.
This Cartridge "mod. D" has a pointed bullet, the cartridges being loaded one after the other, meaning bullet to primer which was the cause of many accidental discharges. The germans using the same type of weapon (1871/84) flattened the point of their bullets, the french used the ring at the bottom of the cartridge to prevent this.

Jean

[Ricochet]

There is no way to know it is from a Lebel because there is more then one french Rifle that used the 8mm(Lebel ,chauchat,French cavalery carabine and probably others.But it is French.

If the 8mm cartridge was on a stiff metal "clip" would that make it for a Lebel? Were there any other 8mm cart put on a clip. You can see the clip on the back of the cart's and also bent around them to hold them in place.

[cricketchris1944]

If the 8mm cartridge was on a stiff metal "clip" would that make it for a Lebel? Were there any other 8mm cart put on a clip. You can see the clip on the back of the cart's and also bent around them to hold them in place.

Well that helps alot,because that would say they were use for the chauchat and chauchat only.

[lithgow]

Definitley not for the Lebel rifle-this used an 8 round tube magazine under the barrel-rounds were loaded in one at a time-clips of 3/5 rounds were used in the Berthier rifle/carbine depending on model-strips of 10 used on the Hotchkiss heavy MG-other earlier weapon types were no longer in service by WW2.

[Redgemak]

Lebel - Berthier - Chauchat all used the same cartridge, only the 1886 Lebel rifle didn't use the clips.
But the cartridges shown were specially made for the Lebel rifle hence the ring in the bottom.


Jean

[Ricochet]

Definitley not for the Lebel rifle-this used an 8 round tube magazine under the barrel-rounds were loaded in one at a time-clips of 3/5 rounds were used in the Berthier rifle/carbine depending on model-strips of 10 used on the Hotchkiss heavy MG-other earlier weapon types were no longer in service by WW2.

Wow, I've learned more about French weapons than I thoought I ever would.

Thanks to all for their inputs. I really enjoyed the conversations and ideas.

With all the time I spent looking things up on the web, I think they belong to a Hotchkiss machine gun. We found groups of 20, 24 qnd 24 in three different areas. Most of the cartridges were single but a few were still held together by a stiff, rusted clip. Therefore I'm pretty sure that they are 8mm cartridges, same ones used for the Lebel and Chauchat.

Thanks again,

Larry