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WWII German 're-packed' ammunition: How to tell?

Article about: I've seen some foreign produced ammunition (Czech/Polish/Dutch/French, but captured by Germany) described as 'repacked by the Germans' and would like to know how one would be able to tell de

  1. #1
    PRE
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    Default WWII German 're-packed' ammunition: How to tell?

    I've seen some foreign produced ammunition (Czech/Polish/Dutch/French, but captured by Germany) described as 'repacked by the Germans' and would like to know how one would be able to tell definitively. Is it referring only to the German made labels for foreign calibers? I've also seen some ammunition in it's original boxes with a black 'X' marked over the label. Is that an indication?

    Thanks,
    Pat

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    PRE
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    Here's a pic of the 'X' I'm referring to, on the box of ammo.
    Best,
    Pat
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    MAP
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    Pre

    Can't help with your question. Sorry. But what is the type of mauser rifle in the picture. I have some poor pics given to me by a friend with a similar depression in the wood on the left side of the action. He was trying to identify it for a widow. Might be the same model.

    Regards

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #4

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    I am not certain but I would suggest that the easiest way apart from indications on the cartons that the rounds are of foreign origin being altered to reflect "new ownership" the rounds themselves will have foreign ie non German headstamps. Alternatively, as I guess that is likely not what you are asking, I think it would depend upon what happened to the ammunition when it was captured whether it was taken immediately into field use or backloaded into the supply system for subsequent issue that way. I am sure that both must have happened.

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  5. #5
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    Quote by MAP View Post
    Pre

    Can't help with your question. Sorry. But what is the type of mauser rifle in the picture. I have some poor pics given to me by a friend with a similar depression in the wood on the left side of the action. He was trying to identify it for a widow. Might be the same model.

    Regards

    Michael
    Hi Michael,
    Thanks for your interest. The short answer is that it's a Gewehr 98. The somewhat longer but more interesting (and more accurate) one is that it is a 1917 Amberg produced Gewehr 98 that was used by Imperial Germany, acquired by Poland, reworked/marked at Fabryki Broni at Radom, captured by the Wehrmacht and reworked at the Berlin-Spandau depot and issued for duty in WWII as what we'd now call a 'modified Gewehr 98.'

    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    I am not certain but I would suggest that the easiest way apart from indications on the cartons that the rounds are of foreign origin being altered to reflect "new ownership" the rounds themselves will have foreign ie non German headstamps. Alternatively, as I guess that is likely not what you are asking, I think it would depend upon what happened to the ammunition when it was captured whether it was taken immediately into field use or backloaded into the supply system for subsequent issue that way. I am sure that both must have happened.

    Regards

    Mark
    Hi Mark,
    Yes, both definitely happened. To cut a very long story short, there was an evolving system of dealing with captured foreign weapons and ammunition ('Beutewaffen') within the Wehrmacht that was handled by the 'Ordnance Inspectorate.' The more I learn about this sub-topic, the more I think that re-labeling the boxes was likely the only indicator of the transfer of possession. I really don't think the Germans took the time to create new boxes and crates when originals would suffice. It appears that new labels, if even those, were enough.

    Two questions for you, if you don't mind: Are you a Canine Officer, and is that your Malinois pictured?

    Best,
    Pat

  6. #6
    MAP
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    Thanks. Quite a history!

    I'm really only familiar with the K98. The picture that was sent to me was grainy, from a distance and in low light but the one thing that stood out was the cut out in the stock just in front of the bolt release. The slightly other difference (from your rifle) was that the bolt was in the white. This rifle may also be a Wehrmacht re-work as it was a vet bring back along with some swords and helmets.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #7
    PRE
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    Hi MAP,
    That cut-out (for loading with a stripper clip) is pretty common among Mauser rifles, so it's not exclusive to this type. Blued bolts are typical of WWII German rifles, though.
    Best,
    Pat

  8. #8
    MAP
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    Thanks Pat. Sorry to take the post in a different direction
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  9. #9
    PRE
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    No need at all for apologies. My experience on other fora is that these threads wind around and take off in different directions as information is added and questions are asked. I think it's a natural course!
    Best,
    Pat

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