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Early Panzerkampfabzeichen - Tombak Petz & Lorenz PAB in Silver.

Article about: Hi Guys, I don't think I've shown this one before, still got a few need posting. It's an early PAB that was for a long time a bit of a riddle as to who made it and it was for a long time ref

  1. #1

    Default Early Panzerkampfabzeichen - Tombak Petz & Lorenz PAB in Silver.

    Hi Guys,

    I don't think I've shown this one before, still got a few need posting. It's an early PAB that was for a long time a bit of a riddle as to who made it and it was for a long time referred to as being attributed to the maker B.H.Mayer of Pforzheim. The reason that these early tombak badges were known as being the 'BH Mayer Design' was the small number of badges that were marked on the pin L/18, that makers LDO code stamp.

    More recent research has now proven beyond much doubt that the make was actually Petz & Lorenz of Unterreichenbach, who lost their license of manufacture in mid 1941, whereupon it appears Mayer bought up the remaining stock of awards they made and marked them as their own much as they did when they purchased the stock of Otto Schickle around the same time, all in all a complicated situation that took collectors and historians years to figure out.

    This badge although appearing identical to the Mayer tombak ones has several differences, thicker material used, the die was slightly different as was the rear set up. Some of the P&L PAB's can be found with the Weidmann 'Lily Pad Hinge' as well as the set up on my badge which actually has more in common with the hardware used on many zinc badges and awards. Another point of note is that the P&L badges often hold onto their bright, quality finishes much better than those by the other makers and are often found with very little tarnishing visible.

    An important thing to bear in mind is that the P&L PAB's are around 10 times rarer than the Mayer or Schickle badges that are found, and are as such highly coveted by collectors and generally command a higher price.

    Anyway, time to get on with it, here's the badge.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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  3. #2

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    Very nice badge, and thanks for the info Ned.

    /Jonas

  4. #3

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    Smashing example Ned!
    I'll have to compare with my Mayer when I get home.
    Thanks for posting this lovely!
    With your new scanner I presume?
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  5. #4

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    Quote by rbminis View Post
    Smashing example Ned!
    I'll have to compare with my Mayer when I get home.
    Thanks for posting this lovely!
    With your new scanner I presume?
    Ralph.
    Hi Ralph,

    Yes, the first two pic's were done with my "new" old Epson off Ebay, the best bit of kit I've bought since the Veho microscope camera, a real bargain!

    When you take a look at your Mayer badge, notice the difference between it's top right oakleaf compared to that on the Petz & Lorenz PAB. You'll notice the top lobe of the leaf where it butts up against the eagles wing is flawed, and remains open, whereas that of the P&L badge's oakleaf is closed. All Mayer PAB's have this flaw, as well as the vertical scrape on the opposite wing that I've also indicated on my bronze Mayer example below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here's the same area on the Petz & Lorenz PAB, which clearly has neither of these flaws, and is therefore from a different die. Even though slight, this is the most obvious difference between the two makers badges.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #5

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    Cracking badge Ned

    I much prefer the early war badges made of tombak or NS. It always strikes me how different the same design can appear in zinc rather than tombak or NS. We all know why the later badges were made of zinc (although it is just not suitable for all kinds of reasons) but imagine if the later numbered PABs had been made of the earlier matrerials

    Also, slightly heavier guage sheet metal makes a huge difference too. I think this might contribute to finish retention because of reduced "flex", probably a thicker level of plating too.

    Thanks for showing

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  7. #6

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post

    Also, slightly heavier guage sheet metal makes a huge difference too. I think this might contribute to finish retention because of reduced "flex", probably a thicker level of plating too.

    Thanks for showing

    Regards

    Mark
    Hi Mark,

    It's been said that these P&L PAB's didn't hold onto their finishes readily, and whilst that can be seen to be true in many cases, I've seen plenty that have really good amounts of finish left, although these have all been silver ones as the bronze type I've only ever seen in textbooks it's that rare. I know that P&L silver plated some of their KM awards before gilding them, and though that may not be the case in my badge it certainly could be in some others that have a noticably thick and preserved bright finish.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #7

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    very nice badge and pics Ned.

  9. #8

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    Very interesting Ned !
    The best Militaria forum in France is here : http://deutsch-militaria.forumactif.us/

  10. #9

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    Wow, Ned. You're on a spree. Keep them coming!

    HOW

  11. #10

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    Quote by HOWitzer View Post
    Wow, Ned. You're on a spree. Keep them coming!

    HOW
    Not really How, I picked this one up a few months back but hadn't got around to showing it. I've still got some from a couple of years back that I haven't shown here yet. When I get a minute....

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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