Help required Junker Panzerkampfabzeichen III Stufe "50"

[CBH]

Does the hole through the badge , bottom log on the first one happen often ? Also would it effect the value or is it a known defect .

[warmac]

sorry Robin and Ned, i always thought that the revits on the pictures where used on the 25 pab and the hollow on the 50 Pab. So what I did mention was already wrong. and now i read everything i thought is wrong.
Learned a lot today , thanks guys.

[robin morley]

Hi Warmac, Dont worry we are all learning, great thiing about this forum is there are plenty of people willing to help.

[big ned]

Once is unfortunate but twice is.....??? Another Grade III Juncker PAB currently being offered for sale by emedals that seems to be suffering from the same problem. Take note of the shield again, the '5' has a major flaw that was never found on original Juncker badges, and again the number font is wrong. There should be no divergence from the accepted original.



The number shield is actually from a fake/post war '57 badge made by Souval, here's one below featuring both the flawed shield and the notorious "claw" catch.



I would therefore recommend that from now on folks who look at emedals for awards to add to their collection think twice or at least do some homework, After all, this would be another $3000+ badge that's been adulterated for financial gain, and as a collector piece is compromised, but that's just my opinion, others will think differently of course.

Be careful out there, Ned.

[big ned]

Does the hole through the badge , bottom log on the first one happen often ? Also would it effect the value or is it a known defect .

Hi Chris,

There is no "hole" as such, what you can see is actually a part of the design being the end of one of the tree trunks/boughs. Check other badges and you'll see what I mean.

Regards, Ned.

[rbminis]

Once is unfortunate but twice is.....??? Another Grade III Juncker PAB currently being offered for sale by emedals that seems to be suffering from the same problem.
Be careful out there, Ned.

I decided quite a while ago that I would refuse to shop there because of things like this. You should never have to scrutinize every detail from a dealer that makes their living selling items like this.
Ralph.

[MAP]

Fantastic catch Ned. I was just on this site today.

[Danmark]

Hey Ned,
pardon my antipodean ignorance but whats the go with the "through rivets"??? ..... seems a bit Heath Robinson to me..
Cheers, Dan

I should qualify that by saying " for such a high award" (as I know other badges have these ) but its like a German Cross in gold with the rivets showing.... that'd be odd.

[big ned]

I decided quite a while ago that I would refuse to shop there because of things like this. You should never have to scrutinize every detail from a dealer that makes their living selling items like this.
Ralph.

Hi Ralph,

I agree. On the evidence above they appear to be prepared to fleece their customers out of considerable amounts of money by selling humped up items.

The subterfuge they have employed at least twice regarding the replacement of the number shields for me negates any arguments that these were bought in that state by them and in good faith. As far as I'm concerned it's a cold, calculated and deliberate attempt at committing fraud that is becoming far too prevalent in this hobby as the prices of higher end items have escalated over the last few years, and that encourages this behaviour. It's easier to make a substantial profit on selling one high end item than it is selling 10 lower end ones, and the risk of detection is also reduced.

Clearly emedals sell many items that are perfectly original and have no issues, but at the same time they are prepared to salt their inventory with items that although not 100% fake, have been adulterated in such a way as to make them as profitable as possible, and at the expense of their often loyal customers, and that for me is inexcusable behaviour by a company that is trusted by so many collectors.

As always, it's a case of caveat emptor or buyer beware, especially as far as this prominent vendor in Medals, Orders and Decorations goes.

Ned.

[big ned]

Hey Ned,
pardon my antipodean ignorance but whats the go with the "through rivets"??? ..... seems a bit Heath Robinson to me..
Cheers, Dan

I should qualify that by saying " for such a high award" (as I know other badges have these ) but its like a German Cross in gold with the rivets showing.... that'd be odd.

Hi Dan,

The Juncker series of numbered PAB's in grades II, III and IV started out life as utilising small tombak rivets that didn't penetrate through the badge, whereas the later production badges switched to aluminium rivets that went right through. At the same time the originally riveted numbers shield went to being soldered in, with the small hole being either filled with solder and eventually disappearing altogether.

The actual reasons why this occurred are unknown, but I tend to think that the increasing difficulty in obtaining copper/nickel/brass alloys for award production forced the change to the more readily available aluminium alloy. The reason that the rivets penetrate the badge to secure it efficiently must be down to this change, as there are no examples of any numbered Juncker PAB's with tombak rivets that penetrate completely through the badge as far as I'm aware.

It should be noted that early Juncker numbered PAB's that have the non penetrating tombak rivets are considered extremely rare, due presumably to limited production before the introduction of the later fixing method and as such are highly prized by collectors.

Regards, Ned.