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Panzerkampfabzeichen Wiedmann for review

Article about: Acquired at auction.Loks like a 5.2.3. with a nice finish.What do you think? Thanks for looking. Steve

  1. #1
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    Default Panzerkampfabzeichen Wiedmann for review

    Acquired at auction.Loks like a 5.2.3. with a nice finish.What do you think?
    Thanks for looking.
    Steve
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

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    imo a caste fake,lots of pitting front and back,but see what Ned says.

  4. #3

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    Hello Steve,
    To be honest, I tend to agree with Harry.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  5. #4
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    Have to agree with the others. Rough pitted finish front and back is never a good sign.

  6. #5

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    I also have serious reservations about this one, but can't be 100% sure if I'm honest. The reverse side of Weidmann badges is always a hard thing to judge by as they vary so much from badge to badge. The obverse side has some suspicious pitting but then again sometimes these are rough as well. The one thing that does stick out possibly in it's favour is the sheet metal oval hinge that is very rare to find indeed. It's been mooted they were used to complete an order when they ran out of the classic 'lily pad' hinge, and then done away with, but this is just a guess. Who's to say a faker like Staegemeir/Hero hasn't picked up on this and copied it??

    I think the best way to go under the circumstances is weight and measurments, so according to the bible they should be:

    Height - 60.6mm Width - 42.13mm Weight - 22.5g to 26.5g ( I would take that as a rough estimate as material mass and thickness varied considerably over time).

    Sorry I can't be more precise.

    EDIT: The tool marks on the pin bend appear at odds with those seen on Weidmann PAB's and IAB's that utilise sheet metal hinges as well.

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    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  7. #6
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    Ned
    Thanks for working with me on this._If this is a copy,would it not be of 5.2.3?Going to "the book",I don't understand the dimensions given,but the weight is given as 33.5gms.Tricky to measure, but mine is,although not precisely, 59.7x 41.7 and weighs 33.1 gms.What do you think?
    Best regards,Steve

  8. #7

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    Quote by Snoman View Post
    Ned
    Thanks for working with me on this._If this is a copy,would it not be of 5.2.3?Going to "the book",I don't understand the dimensions given,but the weight is given as 33.5gms.Tricky to measure, but mine is,although not precisely, 59.7x 41.7 and weighs 33.1 gms.What do you think?
    Best regards,Steve
    Hi Steve,

    The measurements given in P De B's book are incorrect, an error overlooked by the proof readers, but the weight of 33.1g - 33.5g could hold water as it does match closely that of a few other type 5 'Vienna design' badges by other makers, and may be correct whereas the measurements are definitely not! I would say that the measurements you give are within tolerance for a genuine badge allowing a little for the difficulty you had in measuring it. All these details do after all IMO point to this possibly being a genuine Weidmann type 5.2.3 with the wraparound hinge "B" (oval base) as opposed to the other wraparound type"A" (rectangular base) that is also an accepted variant.

    I would suggest you show it elsewhere for opinions though, just to be on the safe side!

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  9. #8

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    Ned I'm thinking, if the dimensions are smaller. It could be a sand cast fake. But the hardware's not a million miles off. Especially the hinge. Stewy

  10. #9

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    Quote by Stewy S View Post
    Ned I'm thinking, if the dimensions are smaller. It could be a sand cast fake. But the hardware's not a million miles off. Especially the hinge. Stewy
    It's certainly a possibility mate. Better pic's would help,(catch, eagles head etc.) but the measurements are very close as is the weight. It's not often if ever that the fakers get so close to the correct 'weights and measures' so to speak, and I'm having a bit of a "Crise de conscience" regarding this badge. I have seen poor original examples of Weidmann PAB's that have a crappy, rough finish that would make it easy to dismiss them out of hand, and because of that I'm not prepared to write it off on the evidence so far, but maybe I'm starting to have a crisis (mid life) all of my own......

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  11. #10

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    Just found this Staegemeir/Hero fake. There are flaws in all the same places which isn't right. I think we may have the answer.

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    EDIT: And another in silver.

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    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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