tombak PAB in bronze

[all1knew]

Hello all,

A forum member posted that "the third bogie wheel seems suspect." on this badge and I was wondering if anyone knew what this meant, any ideas? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but what is a bogie wheel on a tank?

William Kramer

[harryamb2]

looking at the tank the rightside track is odd.the bogie wheels are the small ones.Ned is the man for these see what he says.

[bigmacglenn]

"Bogies" usually refers to the bottom row of running/road-wheels...the top row are called support-rollers...
I was an M1Abrams Tanker many moons ago, lol...
cheers, Glenn,

[big ned]

Hi William,

These early Wurster badges were actually produced from 3 different dies that are each slightly different from the other two. The 'Die 1' (type 1.2.1.) has a flawed inner right roadwheel that is unique to it. I believe this is what the gentleman is referring to when he says 'the third bogie wheel is suspect' as the badge you are selling is a 'Die 2' badge (type 1.2.3.), and this one does not have the flawed wheel (i've indicated the wheel in question on the pic of your badge below).

So there's no problem with the roadwheel/'bogie' question, but the badge does have a problem with it in that the pin has been replaced at sometime in the past, it's definitely not the original one, and you may wish to adjust your asking price accordingly. Take a look at this thread of my identical badge purchased last week and you'll note the differences in the pin colour and the way it's bent around the hinge barrel, including the tool marking just below the bend.

Wurster Hollow Tombak "Organised Grass Pattern" Panzerkampfabzeichen in Bronze.

I hope this helps.



And what I suspect is the roadwheel or 'bogie wheel' that has been incorrectly questioned by the gentleman ( who coincidentally enough is the same one as had the Luftwaffe Fighter Clasp that you called bad.... Do I sense a bit of payback here?) highlighted to show the area of the pertained problem.



Regards, Ned.

[all1knew]

Ned,

Thank you for the informative post. So at the end of the day, an authentic badge but with replaced pin?

Can't prove anything but came from an Estate sale so it was either replaced by the US Vet that brought it back to the Sates or by the recipient during the war. Stupid question maybe, but is there any rule of thumb to period replacement pins, meaning do they share traits and who typically did it, a jeweler?

William Kramer

[ncblksmth1]

Actually I believe that Kramers badge is correct. In making the clasps most of the companies like jewelers today would not use an edged device to bend the pin. Your Wagriff seems like it has been bent by a pair of smooth jawed plyers. Ill bet if you open the clasp the two sides meet in the middle whereas Mr Kramers pin is bent so the bottom meets the top. Now look at most of the others online and you will see this.

Kramer. Makes you nervous dosent it.

[harryamb2]

nicely explained Ned. was going to say disecceted but minds blank no spell.

[big ned]

Actually I believe that Kramers badge is correct. In making the clasps most of the companies like jewelers today would not use an edged device to bend the pin. Your Wagriff seems like it has been bent by a pair of smooth jawed plyers. Ill bet if you open the clasp the two sides meet in the middle whereas Mr Kramers pin is bent so the bottom meets the top. Now look at most of the others online and you will see this.

Kramer. Makes you nervous dosent it.

The use of a persons surname when referring to them without the common courtesy of prefixing it with a polite 'Mr.' won't get you far on this forum. Further to that, posting complete gibberish is not only remiss, it's actually rather disturbing to some. It's obvious you have an agenda here, and it does your character no good whatsoever, so I would advise you in a purely well meant way to pull your neck in before you get the tin tack old boy.

[big ned]

Ned,

Thank you for the informative post. So at the end of the day, an authentic badge but with replaced pin?

Can't prove anything but came from an Estate sale so it was either replaced by the US Vet that brought it back to the Sates or by the recipient during the war. Stupid question maybe, but is there any rule of thumb to period replacement pins, meaning do they share traits and who typically did it, a jeweler?

William Kramer

William,

It's almost impossible to say when the repair was carried out, but looking at the tool mark on the bend inside the 'crook' and the nicely shaped tensioning foot of the pin, i'd wager it was done in period and by a professional, as i'd imagine a vet would more likely leave as is (as is often seen in badges, daggers, helmets etc. that are bringbacks and damaged) rather than repairing it so well. But you never know. I will say that period repairs i've seen before are often just like this.

Regards, Ned.

[Adrian]

I'm not quite sure what the issue is here but there is clearly some undercurrent of subtle hostility which will end here and now.

If you want to discuss Third Reich Awards and Decorations then everyone is welcome. If you want to use the forum for your own hidden agenda(s) then you will be departing swiftly as this space on the internet will not play host to any petty rivalry or point scoring between members.