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Views on a Panzerkampfabzeichen in Silber welcome

Article about: Bought this Silver PAB from a dealer in 2003. It feels heavy, the finish on the back is smooth, and where the silver is rubbing off on the front it looks like it's coming up a brassy colour

  1. #1

    Default Views on a Panzerkampfabzeichen in Silber welcome

    Bought this Silver PAB from a dealer in 2003. It feels heavy, the finish on the back is smooth, and where the silver is rubbing off on the front it looks like it's coming up a brassy colour (e.g. on the gun). No maker marks, and the back although solid is concave. Can't say that I've come across another one quite like it, which could be either good or bad!

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761402Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761403Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761404
    Last edited by rbminis; 11-06-2014 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Edited title to use proper German terminology.

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  3. #2

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    From the shape of the pin foot, reverse view of the eagle's head and the pointiness of the turret, I'm inclined to believe this one is a copy.
    Can you post a straight on front view of the eagle for us?
    Hopefully others will post their opinions as well.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  4. #3

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    It seems to be based on a type design 5 badge. The angular reverse side of the head is a ringer for the unknown maker called the "Rocky" design, but the obverse doesn't quite match. It's closer to the other unknown makers, the "Dishback" and "Scooped Out Flat Back" designs, but the main problem, and this is what makes me almost certain it's a copy, is the overall soft appearance. The wreath and oak leaves should be "stippled", but it's not. The eagles head looks very weakly defined and the headlights are also suffering from the same problem.

    The reverse side edges appear to be rounded and show no signs of hand finishing, nor does the cut out area around the turret and eagle, although the appearance is that it's been cut out by hand, that makes no sense. Finally, as a type 5 badge, it would be made from zinc, yet this appears to be a better quality metal or alloy. The finish of it doesn't match a late war badge and the fact that the catch is soldered on directly rather than being on a plate also indicates to me it isn't zinc when it should be.

    As Ralph says, a good pic of the eagle and especially it's head would be a great help in nailing down the exact design type for sure, but I am convinced this is a bad 'un and it wouldn't be for me.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #4

    Default

    imo a quality copy.

  6. #5

    Default

    A fake for sure. IMO it would like to be an F&R, but it's not. Sorry, Stewy

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by Stewy S View Post
    A fake for sure. IMO it would like to be an F&R, but it's not. Sorry, Stewy
    Hi Stewy,

    I see where you're coming from, those were my initial thoughts, but the F&R badge doesn't have headlight rims as it's a design type 4, and only the 2nd pattern Meybauer has anything close to rims out of all of the makers of that type. And then there's the grass foreground, the 2nd pattern Meybauer has a more complex grass area, so that's why I went for the dishback design type 5 as it covers all aspects except the birds head as the pic isn't clear on that.

    I'm guessing Ralph asked for better pics of the eagle to try and tie down the exact type because of all these similarities and differences, and I can't argue with that as the badge as it stands just doesn't add up. But at least we all appear to agree it's a fake, and that's what only really matters ain't it?

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #7

    Default

    My first thoughts were F&R but, I'll talk about the reverse first. The hinge is too wide, there is no catch plate, the top of the cupola is too pointy, I do not remember ever seeing a pressure foot on a pin that looks like this one, the bottom of the eagle's beak is too sharp. Plus, the amount of dish to the back does not look right.
    Here is a photo of my low marked bronze and my mid marked silver for comparison.
    Ralph.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761779
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  9. #8

    Default

    Thanks guys. Here's a close up of the eagle as requested.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761780Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761783

  10. #9

    Default

    Now the front.
    The eagle's head is not clearly enough visable in these photos but, from what I can see, I do not like it, the, (as Ned has stated), headlights rims should not be there, the tracks look too much like dumbbells, the foreground is not correct, the axial gun port looks too much like a blob, and the cupola looks too pointy, although hard to see due to the shadow. The eagle appears to be lacking detail as well.
    Here are the front of the same badges I posted already.
    Ralph.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	761782  
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  11. #10

    Default

    Here is the eagle from an unmarked F&R silver.
    Ralph.
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	38 
Size:	226.5 KB 
ID:	761784
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

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