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1943 Graff Spee item???

Article about: Hi, Would this be an actual item relating to the Graff Spee after capture or a fake? Neil

  1. #1

    Default 1943 Graff Spee item???

    Hi,

    Would this be an actual item relating to the Graff Spee after capture or a fake?

    Neil
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1943 Graff Spee-Argentina.jpg 
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  3. #2

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    To me the stamps look crisper an newer than the rest of the document

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  4. #3

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    The document in a whole is kept in very good condition...

  5. #4

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    The Island have a jail..why not?

  6. #5

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    Maybe the document is genuine and the Graf Spee handstamp is bogus and has been added more recently? I cannot see the point of stamping a document from February 1943 with an official stamp specific to the battleship Graf Spee that was scuttled in December 1939, it doesn't make sense.

    All examples that I can find of genuine handstamps used by the Graf Spee on postal envelopes and suchlike are in a rectangular block design, and all pre date December 1939, here is an example below.

    The above document, if genuine, would I imagine have gone through the German Embassy in Buenos Aires and been dispatched by diplomatic bag because there is no sign of the red pencil that the Argentinian censors would have used or the specific censorship no. 4127 that was used for all documents and correspondence relating to the Graf Spee and her interned crew at Martin Garcia.

    I think the German stamp is probably bogus, it resembles far too closely the ones that have been flooding out of Eastern Europe for years now. Whether the document itself is genuine, and not a teabag stained, lightly toasted forgery, I leave to others to decide, but I believe that this is probably another example of 'over egging the pudding' so favoured by the fraudsters who wish to inflate the value of the document by giving it the added frisance of a TR stamp.

    Regards, Ned.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  7. #6

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    Thanks for the advice.
    The document came from Argentina a few years ago, a large collection of such papers surfaced and sold. I thought from some archive...

  8. #7

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    Deep in the Staffordshire countryside lives our own 'Yoda' ...........
    Seek his advice, you must .........Amazing he is!!!
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

  9. #8

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    It seems odd that it is on a printed form with typed entries for a document that cannot have been needed very often if more than once yet is headed movement order for personnel of the Graf spee etc.... and why would it have the Kommando of panzerschiff Graf Spee stamp on it at such a late date as Ned posted and etc.....

    Too many ifs and buts for my liking.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  10. #9

    Default Re: 1943 Graff Spee item???

    Quote by Danmark View Post
    Deep in the Staffordshire countryside lives our own 'Yoda' ...........
    Seek his advice, you must .........Amazing he is!!!
    I have been called 'Jabba' for some strange reason more than once, but never 'Yoda'....
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2564925_JabbaTheHutt.jpg 
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    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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