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Himmlers signature

Article about: G'day all, I wondered if you would mind taking a look at this document and giving me your opinions on it. It is being offered by a dealer who has been around since the sixties, I hope the si

  1. #51

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    By the same token, of course, there are those today who would assert that the black SS uniforms currently in some collections, for instance, were stolen from their owners at the end of the war via the victors and their demilitarization strictures. Such an assertion is more than odd, since such things were considered to be less than junk, and, in fact, highly incriminating objects which their owners wanted to destroy as soon as possible. I know this from direct experience of families in which such would have been an issue.Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    I would think that a great many documents were also viewed as incriminating and I am sure there were many thousands destroyed in attempts to protect some who would otherwise have been persecuted for their crimes. As you say, many items changed hands through a variety of ways, war souvenirs, blatant theft, seized by the new governing victors from previous authorities, I suppose in many cases it is difficult to prove who really is the true owner of some of our collectables.

  4. #53

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Your document is plainly from the personnel file of said Brigadefuehrer who pissed off Heini H. It is stamped as such. This file was likely in the Berlin archive operated for years to assure that ex Nazis did not return too brazenly to public life.
    In other cases, documents were scattered about, but the SS officer files were gotten in a lump by the US side in 1945 and used for denazification. This is a long and complicated story, but I would be surely surprised if this document of yours came from anywhere other than the BDC.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-02-2012 at 03:49 PM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #54
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Another interesting angle to what has been a very informative discussion , FB as usual your knowledge and help enlightens us all , many thanks for you input !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  6. #55

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Paul E View Post
    Another interesting angle to what has been a very informative discussion , FB as usual your knowledge and help enlightens us all , many thanks for you input !!
    Thanks. I am sorry to sound a discordant note. The BDC scandal is well represented in Google if you look closely. Such is our globalized, and transparent world.
    damit, basta.

  7. #56
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Thanks. I am sorry to sound a discordant note. The BDC scandal is well represented in Google if you look closely. Such is our globalized, and transparent world.
    I had heard about it but need to research it more !! A few years ago a lot of personal files etc of Waffen SS personnel were being offered for sale in the UK which had obviously been aquired from somewhere !! There is of course the current case of the young guy in Texas i believe who has stolen a large amount of documentation from a Holocaust Museum and then offered it for sale on the open market , this came to light about a year ago , i'm not sure of the current situation but some of the documents were recovered from collectors !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #57
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    I am sorry to rain on your parade, and surely I do not want to deprive you of your valuable property. If you do some research into the Berlin Document Center issue, I think you will find out what I mean. It is a fine and interesting document, very typical of Himmler the a$$ hole and amateur military leader.
    However, I have some professional familiarity with these things, that this page is surely from his file, as the stamp indicates as well as all the crayon initials that persons read same up and down the chain.

    with best wishes, FB
    Thank you, F-B, for your intervention supplying us with information on the BDC issue - a case I am not familiar enough with.

    As for the document in question, I find Himmler's characterisation of an "evil spirit" within Division 'Wiking' - almost akin to how one in medieval times spoke of evil and its infectious properties - to be priceless. And very Himmleresque.


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

  9. #58

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    He was a sonofabitch. Read his collected letters edited by Heiber. Also his Tagebuch from 1941/2 reveals the truth of the man.
    damit, basta.

  10. #59
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    He was a sonofabitch. Read his collected letters edited by Heiber. Also his Tagebuch from 1941/2 reveals the truth of the man.
    He was, F-B. Do not take my "priceless comment" as praise - it was written with the opposite intent, with an ironic twist.



    For those of you not able to read German:

    This document is basically a reprimand concerning the conduct of SS-Brigadeführer Fiedler, who in Himmler's own words, had left Division "Wiking" without Himmler's permission. Furthermore Himmler has the impression that Fiedler most certainly have not displayed proper conduct, he also cannot shake the impression he has of an "evil/bad spirit" rampant in Division "Wiking" which meets in the most miserable way, and which knowingly and decidely treats ill - anyone and all who comes from outside of the Division. Himmler ends by informing that Fiedler is to serve in of one of the two new divisions, as a Kompanieführer, company commander, his Waffen-SS rank. When/if he there as company commander learns enough (to satisfy the military genious Himmler that he will not do his "mistake" again) and if the division is not sent into combat soon, he is to be sent to one of the divisions on the eastern front within Spring/Summer.


    This summary was written with much haste and without much thought - so it is far from perfect probably.


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.
    Last edited by KSH; 01-02-2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Correction

  11. #60

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Kenneth, you missed the piece about him being degraded to being a company commander, which for a full colonel is not exactly a sign of high esteem up the chain of command. I assume as a Brigadefuehrer that he had a regimental or battalion command in Wiking or in the staff or wherever. I will let the Waffen SS biography people here instruct me.
    damit, basta.

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