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Himmlers signature

Article about: G'day all, I wondered if you would mind taking a look at this document and giving me your opinions on it. It is being offered by a dealer who has been around since the sixties, I hope the si

  1. #71

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    No, but the letter is what in the US military is called an "aw sh!t" versus an "attaboy!" I had thought that the man's Waffen SS rank was Brigadefuehrer versus his Allgemeine SS rank. All too droll, and further indication that the translation of these things requires huge, and I mean huge annotation in order to be intelligible.
    Himmler had a very refined system of disciplinary measures, manifest, for instance, in the SS Befehlsblaetter, as well as the categories of being chucked out enshrined in the back of the SS Dienstalterliste.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #72

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Name:  61PjNNeaFUL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  39.5 KBName:  41GS340C29L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Views: 148
Size:  12.8 KBBy the way, when I went to a German university before most of you were born, we did this kind of Quellenstudium in Proseminare where we learned how to use the sources. A long time ago....die Quellenkunde.
    damit, basta.

  4. #73

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	147.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	82.8 KB 
ID:	286750I bought this almost forty years ago in Bonn and was a great revelation about the man and life in his organization. I cadged this image of the internet. I believe it was published at the end of the 1960s, but I am not sure.
    damit, basta.

  5. #74

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Name:  51CBEZR0sQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Views: 118
Size:  15.2 KBAlso of merit from nearly four decades ago is this volume:
    damit, basta.

  6. #75
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    So many books, so little time. I have not finished my book on Reinhard Heydrich yet that I am currently reading. Thank you for the reading suggestions, F-B.

    I have corrected my summary again to what I feel is right - I shall just leave it now in its imperfection. And surely, I have learned that one needs a lot of knowledge to interpret these documents correctly - to be able to read German only takes you half-way sometimes.


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

  7. #76

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by KSH View Post
    I have corrected my very unsatisfactory summary now - I have no time to translate properly right now. HPL/Andreas can do such things like a machine gun - not quite so with me..
    Many thanks. So permit me to provide the full translation for the letter:

    "The Reichsführer-SS
    Field command post, 14 January 1943

    Journal no. 9/12/43 g
    RF/V.

    Secret!

    Dear Jüttner!
    Dear Herff!

    A few days ago, I had summoned
    SS-Brigadeführer Fiedler and demanded from him an explanation on his peculiar behaviour during his frontline assignment, namely his returning from the 'Wiking' Division without having been given order from me to do so.
    I have the impression that Fiedler has certainly not acted properly, however I also cannot avoid the impression that an absolutely mean spirit reigns in the '
    Wiking' Division, one which meets everyone coming from outside the 'Wiking' Division in the most wretched way, treating them deliberately and decidedly mean.
    According to the telephone conversation I have had with SS-
    Gruppenführer Jüttner, Fiedler is now to be detailed to one of the two new divsions as a company commander. After he has gained sufficient knowledge as a (motorized) company commander there and if the division should not see a frontline assignment soon thereafter, he is to be transferred for frontline duty with one of the eastern divisions during the course of spring or summer.

    Heil Hitler!
    Your
    [signed: Himmler]

    Enclosure
    1 personnel file
    "


    From the time frame, the two "new divisions" would appear to be the 9th and 10th Waffen-SS divsions "Hohenstaufen" and "Frundsberg".
    Last edited by HPL2008; 01-03-2012 at 12:37 AM.

  8. #77

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Many thanks. So permit me to provide the full translation for the letter:

    "The Reichsführer-SS
    Field command post, 14 January 1943

    Journal no. 9/12/43 g
    RF/V.

    Secret!

    Dear Jüttner!
    Dear Herff!

    A few days ago, I had summoned
    SS-Brigadeführer Fiedler and demanded from him an explanation on his peculiar behaviour during his frontline assignment, namely his returning from the 'Wiking' Division without having been given order from me to do so.
    I have the impression that Fiedler has certainly not acted properly, however I also cannot avoid the impression that an absolutely mean spirit reigns in the '
    Wiking' Division, one which meets everyone coming from outside the 'Wiking' Division in the most wretched way, treating them deliberately and decidedly mean.
    According to the telephone conversation I have had with SS-
    Gruppenführer Jüttner, Fiedler is now to be detailed to one of the two new divsions as a company commander. After he was gained sufficient knowledge as a (motorized) company commander there and if the division should not see a frontline assignment, he is to be transferred for frontline duty with one of the eastern divisions during the course of spring or summer.

    Heil Hitler!
    Your
    [signed: Himmler]

    Enclosure
    1 personnel file
    "


    From the time frame, the two "new divisions" would appear to be the 9th and 10th Waffen-SS divsions "Hohenstaufen" and "Frundsberg".

    Bravo. So you see, since I thought that the man's SS rank was colonel deluxe, I mis read the letter. In fact, Heini H is taking exception to the command climate in Wiking and its hostility to someone from the other bits of the SS. Thanks to Andreas for setting us right, and further proof that doing three things at once means that I do nothing well. Nothing in haste. Thanks again for the fine scholarship. My apologies for my haste. Then the letter is not an aw sh!t, save to the Wiking people.
    damit, basta.

  9. #78

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    The SS is an endlessly interesting subject, especially in the collections of primary sources. These are old books, but no less valuable. I am not too terribly impressed with the British bio of Heydrich, but I have not read the whole thing.
    damit, basta.

  10. #79
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    The SS is an endlessly interesting subject, especially in the collections of primary sources. These are old books, but no less valuable. I am not too terribly impressed with the British bio of Heydrich, but I have not read the whole thing.
    I do not know this British bio on Heydrich - a recent one?


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

  11. #80

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by KSH View Post
    Do you mean that no demotion took place? The text never explicitly mentions a demotion.
    No, not a demotion.

    Allgemeine SS ranks were simply not recognized by the Waffen-SS (unless the person in question was considered suitably qualified to be given the same rank in the Waffen-SS that he had held in the Allgemeine SS, but this was more an exception than the rule and far from automatic).

    Gunter d'Alquen, for example, was a Standartenführer (Colonel) in the Allgemeine SS, but joined the Waffen-SS as an Untersturmführer (2nd Lieutenant).
    Other young men were already NCOs or even officers in the Allgemeine SS but had to start from zero in the Waffen-SS.

    This is not really surprising as the Allgemeine SS was a political organization mostly comprised of part-timers while the Waffen-SS was an armed military organization. (By which I am not claiming it was non-political, of course.) Their missions, qualification demands and promotion criteria were vastly different.

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