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Himmlers signature

Article about: G'day all, I wondered if you would mind taking a look at this document and giving me your opinions on it. It is being offered by a dealer who has been around since the sixties, I hope the si

  1. #81
    KSH
    KSH is offline
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    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    No, not a demotion.

    Allgemeine SS ranks were simply not recognized by the Waffen-SS (unless the person in question was considered suitably qualified to be given the same rank in the Waffen-SS that he had held in the Allgemeine SS, but this was more an exception than the rule and far from automatic).

    Gunter d'Alquen, for example, was a Standertenführer (Colonel) in the Allgemeine SS, but joined the Waffen-SS as an Untersturmführer (2nd Lieutenant).
    Other young men were already NCOs or even officers in the Allgemeine SS but had to start from zero in the Waffen-SS.

    This is not really surprising as the Allgemeine SS was a political organization mostly comprised of part-timers while the Waffen-SS was an armed military organization. (By which I am not claiming it was non-political, of course.) Their missions, qualification demands and promotion criteria were vastly different.
    Thank you. Andreas - then I understood the implications correctly after your first intervention.


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

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  3. #82

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    It is from Yale UP and also published in Germany.
    damit, basta.

  4. #83

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    No, not a demotion.

    Allgemeine SS ranks were simply not recognized by the Waffen-SS (unless the person in question was considered suitably qualified to be given the same rank in the Waffen-SS that he had held in the Allgemeine SS, but this was more an exception than the rule and far from automatic).

    Gunter d'Alquen, for example, was a Standartenführer (Colonel) in the Allgemeine SS, but joined the Waffen-SS as an Untersturmführer (2nd Lieutenant).
    Other young men were already NCOs or even officers in the Allgemeine SS but had to start from zero in the Waffen-SS.

    This is not really surprising as the Allgemeine SS was a political organization mostly comprised of part-timers while the Waffen-SS was an armed military organization. (By which I am not claiming it was non-political, of course.) Their missions, qualification demands and promotion criteria were vastly different.
    The book on this is that of Robert Koehl, as well as Wegner. The fractiousness in the SS was a constant theme. This issue is also treated in HJ Mueller Das Heer und Hitler.
    I don't put much store in the memoir literature of the protagonists, though Steiner's books are better than the others. Hausser's book, for instance, is very tendentious and a fruit of the era.
    There is a new scholarly book coming out on the HIAG which I shall read with interest.
    All the best to you.
    damit, basta.

  5. #84

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    It is from Yale UP and also published in Germany.
    That would be the biography by Robert Gerwarth, then. I actually liked it better than the other ones I had read on the subject so far.

    Kenneth - For some good SS biographies, may I suggest a few personal favorites of mine:

    Well worth reading are Peter Longerich's Himmler biography, Ulf Schmidt's biography of Dr. Karl Brandt, Jens Westemeier's work on Joachim Peiper and Anna Maria Sigmund's work on Emil Maurice "Des Führers bester Freund".

  6. #85
    KSH
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    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post

    Kenneth - For some good SS biographies, may I suggest a few personal favorites of mine:

    Well worth reading are Peter Longerich's Himmler biography, Ulf Schmidt's biography of Dr. Karl Brandt, Jens Westemeier's work on Joachim Peiper and Anna Maria Sigmund's work on Emil Maurice "Des Führers bester Freund".
    Thank you very much!


    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

  7. #86

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    That would be the biography by Robert Gerwarth, then. I actually liked it better than the other ones I had read on the subject so far.

    Kenneth - For some good SS biographies, may I suggest a few personal favorites of mine:

    Well worth reading are Peter Longerich's Himmler biography, Ulf Schmidt's biography of Dr. Karl Brandt, Jens Westemeier's work on Joachim Peiper and Anna Maria Sigmund's work on Emil Maurice "Des Führers bester Freund".
    thanks. The one on Peiper I do not know. The others are very good. I am no friend of the apologia literature that reigns especially in the English speaking world. Someone in Germany is writing a scholarly biography of Eicke. The Gerwarth book I have not read carefully. In this stuff, I am jaded, I must admit.
    Thanks to you all for a collegial experience.
    damit, basta.

  8. #87
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Gentlemen many thanks for taking this interesting topic forward onto the next level . As a collector of German documents i personally feel that one should make some attempt to improve knowledge of the German langauge itself but alas for me only in it's modern format so it a great relief that we have members such as yourselves who can assist in translation of more difficult text as well as that from a previous era.

    cheers

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  9. #88

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    This thread has gotten a tad bit Off the subject....this is what the PM system here is for-just a thought....William
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #89
    ?

    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    The thread is agood learning tool for all interested in German documentation and Himmler and his signature in particular and has naturally evolved , open for all members to read and comment on , that wouln't be the case if the discussion was continued by pm !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  11. #90
    KSH
    KSH is offline
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    Default Re: Himmlers signature

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    This thread has gotten a tad bit Off the subject....this is what the PM system here is for-just a thought....William
    I never see you complain when an entire thread can be summed up thus: , Nice items, Well done! etc etc etc - I find such "digressions" as above to be of high merit and perfectly in keeping with the quest to better our knowledge of these things, which is the reason we are here is it not? I at least do not frequent this forum to see parades of smiley-faces and endless boosting up of vanity.

    Just a thought.

    K§H

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