Is this hitler signature any good?

[Paul D]

So Otto Meissner regulary forged the signature of Hitler , not something i've ever heard before , is that information recorded anywhere ?

[drmessimer]

Paul: He didn't forge anything. Forgery is a crime committed with the intent to defraud. Otto Meissner, in his official capacity, had the power of signature from 1919 to 1945. It's very similar to someone having power of attorney, but not as broad. As for sources. Enter Otto Meissner in either google. com or google.de and you will have all the information you need. Dwight

[Paul D]

Yes forge was the wrong word !

[operaman]

If it is with permission it is not a forgery

[Paul D]

If it is with permission it is not a forgery

I know i just said that was the wrong word to use !!

[Paul D]

Another couple of docs with the signatures of Hitler and Meissner , the one on the left is for sale for $30,000 and the one on the right £85 !!.

So in this case both signatures will have been done by Meissner ?

[Panzer 3]

Hi,
I really must agree with DRMessimer, he already has proved his statement on Otto Messner, and all i can conclude
is that maybe, some of the signature that some collectors have are not old adulfs at all. But as Messner had power of attorney they are by him, what a wast of money.
Dave.
PS, dont those signature look original Paul, thank for showing them.

[drmessimer]

Another couple of docs with the signatures of Hitler and Meissner , the one on the left is for sale for $30,000 and the one on the right £85 !!.
So in this case both signatures will have been done by Meissner ?

Yes. Meissner signed both those documents and, correctly, signed his name below to show that the signature is not that of that of Hitler. It's the same thing that's done with power of attorney. The holder of the power signes the principal's name and then adds his below, sometimes with the qualifier, "so-and-so attorney in fact" Secretaries who type letters for their boss that they sign on his behalf, always have a similar disclaimer. Dwight

[Woske]

Another couple of docs with the signatures of Hitler and Meissner , the one on the left is for sale for $30,000 and the one on the right £85 !!.

So in this case both signatures will have been done by Meissner ?

Paul,
drmessimer is wrong. The document on the right is ink signed in the bottom right corner by Otto Meissner. The Hitler signature is a well known facsimile. It is not handsigned by Meissner in Hitler's name. That is why it is £85.
The document on the left is ink signed by Otto Meissner in the bottom right corner. This is not to show that Hitler did not originally sign the document. It was common practice for a nominated subordinate to prepare an official document for signing by the Führer. You can see this on numerous different official Third Reich documents. This is well known by anyone who has collected TR documents for any length of time. The ink signature on this document is that of Hitler himself and that is why it is more expensive.
drmessimer has not proved anything as Dave is suggesting. The document he has posted in an effort to support his claim appears to have an ink signature of Otto Meissner and a facsimile signature of Hitler. The signatures are of different ink. It is common knowledge that Otto Meissner had authority to sign common documents on Hitler's behalf, but only under Hitler's facsimile signatures and only in his own name. To suggest he faked Hitler's signature (sorry, but it is forging regardless of whether the person allows it as it is a third party who it is intended to deceive into believing the signature is original and it does not have to be for gain) is preposterous. There is no proof of this claim on any website I found searching Google or any other search engine.
drmessimer has made a sweeping statement without any evidence so far and some have chosen to accept his unsubstantiated word. I have researched Third Reich history since 1963 and have accessed thousands of original files in archives across Europe and in the USA. I have never seen any evidence that Otto Meissner or anyone else had authority to sign "Adolf Hitler" on his behalf. Until I see some proof, I will treat drmessimer's statement as pure mistaken speculation.
Finally, not only have I not attributed any statement to drmessimer that he did not say (I only made a suggestion that he was possibly confusing facsimile signatures with handwritten examples) but I believe it is easily possible for an experienced collector to identify an obvious fake on a computer screen. Some, I agree, are not so obvious and require physical examination, but some are just simply obvious to the experienced eye and in some cases to the inexperienced eye.
Regards,
Woske.

[drmessimer]

Well, all I can say is that it's amazing what one can determine without seeing the original. Dwight