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Hitler youth journal

Article about: I am currently bidding on a HJ journal in which all will be revealed if I win. My question is.. Does the cover look more modern than the 1940's or 30's? The contents are wonderful but I have

  1. #21
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    Michael,

    I was not the journal type kid but more the throw knives at trees and shoot carp with my bow and arrow kid. We used to try to rid the lakes of them and feed Farmer Vern's pigs. I like it Darren and hope you get it.

    Hitler youth journal

    Hitler youth journal


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  3. #22

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    I do not believe the writing to have been done by a felt pen - I think it has been done by a fountain pen.
    If you look at the second pic on the original post - at the bottom of the page the lines look to have been done by a fountain pen (look at the shape of the 'S').
    That said I still agree with Brian - I would be very sceptical of this - very difficult to tell of course, but just my opinion.
    Nick

  4. #23

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    Agree. The lack of fading to the ink is explained from prior post. Light will fade ink & yellow the paper. If the book is kept shut, that preserves the pages.

    Lots of liners in helmets that are penned with ink in regards to names, units, feldposts #, etc.etc. are almost perfectly legible with minimal fading due to the leather not being exposed to light while sitting on a shelf the last 75 years
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

  5. #24

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    Quote by Anderson View Post
    My question of this notebook would be around the black ink used. To my eye and mind it was written with a black felt tip pen. I may be wrong, but my understanding was that type of pen was not available in the 1930's. This was not written with a fountain pen. Even in the 1960's in schools kids were predominately using fountain pens, and the ultra thin felt tips (so you can write with a 0.5mm nib) is certainly since the 1970's. Fountain pen nibs make a distinctive mark on the page, that this writing does not have.

    Just went out to check some facts. The felt or fibre tip pen was invented in Japan in the 1960's. so if the writing in this journal is with such a pen, it is a post 1960's creation.

    The other issue is more than one writer. The hand writing is different on the different pages shown. The only page of writing I believe is period is #5, second picture showing HJ diamond badge; that 5 lines of childs writing look genuine and with a fountain pen. The rest of the book, or most of it, appears to me to have been written much later and by an adult.
    This style of notebook has been in use for more years than I am old, which perhaps should make me feel younger. It was common to use it as a log book in research labs at Stanford University in the 1960 's. I could post a photo of mine, but that would be overkill since that idea was handled quite well in post #12. However, the laboratory book I mentioned was a shift log documenting research that went on 24/7 for several months. There are examples of calligraphy in more different hands than you can count as well as various writing instruments. Anyone who used pencil was severely disciplined and forced to rewrite a disclaimer in ink.

    I was an Eagle Scout and signed a similar log book to record my presence at meetings as well as be notified of upcoming events. I responded to just such a post about the Jamboree in Colorado 1962.

    I suggest that is analogous to what we are seeing here.

    However, I share Anderson's mixed feelings about the possible use of felt tip pens. I am also still laughing at a quip by Blackcat that....opinions are like asses and we all have one. So I shall expose mine.

    I agree wholeheartedly with Anderson that the handwriting in post #5 was done with a fountain pen nib. Let us then return to the Opening post #1 which has an example of bleed showing through from the entry on the next page. The bleed from a black felt tip is more aggressive and red is worse. Red will even continue to migrate through capillary action over time causing blurring. Both SHARPIE and SANFORD 's Vis--vis claim to be "permanent", while I claim "bullshit".

    The punch line of this "joke" is that the bleed seen in the OP appears to be consistent with a fountain pen.

    I also support the opinion that the amount of time spent to create this journal would not justify a fake. Let me know whether you like my ass or not....Doug

  6. #25

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    Quote by bsiwula1 View Post
    I must say however I'm surprised if not downright shocked, with the overall warm reception this piece is being given. Generally we as a community are more of a "half glass empty" kind of group, and or buy the item not the story folk, some may say to a fault. Have we turned a page?..pun intended. I'm perfectly willing to go along with the overall concensus here. There should be one would think a name attributed with this piece, and if real would be a super cool item to own and possibly document back to it's author. Personally I love my country beyond a doubt..love it or leave it. However I ve never felt the need to write a childhood journal to express my overwhelming devotion and loyalty to it's principals and ideoligies, so if this piece IS legit what a microcosmic look into the fervor the NSDAP propaganda machine was able to evoke in it's people. Heck try getting a child to look away from a phone for five minutes these days, and here little Ernst has spent what amounts to a years worth of schoolwork celebrating the triumphs of the national socialist movement. I can't help but wonder why not just do the cigarette card album collecting? with high gloss prints and scripted texts etc. I'm not being facetious with this post either, I truly do find this subject and discussion fascinating. I also love the direction cuz is turning towards in this area of collecting, photo albums, ephemeral pieces, a wide range of subject matter and research involved there. Kindest regards and best of luck cuz. If you do wind up purchasing it please share more if you would please?

    Brian
    It's a "One of a kind" item worthy of discussion. There's not much to compare it to, if we don't get too scientific...really all speculation & opinions. Not like we are vetting a badge or armband where we have access to other examples. Would like to have it in hands & just get an over all "feel" for it.
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

  7. #26

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    It is a valid point. But as Michael said it s rather hard to discern in digital images alone what writing implement was used. In regards to a comparison the only contemporary piece I could think of and please understand I'm not trying to be distasteful, would be Anne Frank's diary. I would think there would be similarities there given both were of the same period and hypothetically both would have been done over a period of time and maturation showing advancements in both form and quality of writing.

    Hitler youth journalHitler youth journalHitler youth journal

  8. #27

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    I guess the only way to find out for sure is to get it in my hands, therefore 30 or 40 pictures won't be a problem. There is also content I have not seen yet.
    We have met the enemy and have learned nothing more about him. I have, however, learned some things about myself. There are things men can do to one another that are sobering to the soul. It is one thing to reconcile these things with God, but another to square it with yourself. - Robert Leckie

  9. #28

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    Quote by Anderson View Post
    My question of this notebook would be around the black ink used. To my eye and mind it was written with a black felt tip pen. I may be wrong, but my understanding was that type of pen was not available in the 1930's. This was not written with a fountain pen. Even in the 1960's in schools kids were predominately using fountain pens, and the ultra thin felt tips (so you can write with a 0.5mm nib) is certainly since the 1970's. Fountain pen nibs make a distinctive mark on the page, that this writing does not have.

    Just went out to check some facts. The felt or fibre tip pen was invented in Japan in the 1960's. so if the writing in this journal is with such a pen, it is a post 1960's creation.

    The other issue is more than one writer. The hand writing is different on the different pages shown. The only page of writing I believe is period is #5, second picture showing HJ diamond badge; that 5 lines of childs writing look genuine and with a fountain pen. The rest of the book, or most of it, appears to me to have been written much later and by an adult.
    On the first page (first pic) the last word written on the bottom line " ist" looks like vertically the ink pen ran out of ink by the top of the last letter. You can see that repeated a few times on a few other letters too. A felt tip marker does not do that so "cut & dry". A fountain pen will. To me it's ink from a pen.

    Also on the first page...I can see "spattering" dots of what appears to be ink in many areas. A felt marker does not leave "spatter" dots on the page, a fountain pen will
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."
    " A relief to see a 'GOOD' helmet here"

  10. #29

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    Quote by real steel View Post
    On the first page (first pic) the last word written on the bottom line " ist" looks like vertically the ink pen ran out of ink by the top of the last letter. You can see that repeated a few times on a few other letters too. A felt tip marker does not do that so "cut & dry". A fountain pen will. To me it's ink from a pen.

    Also on the first page...I can see "spattering" dots of what appears to be ink in many areas. A felt marker does not leave "spatter" dots on the page, a fountain pen will
    REAL STEEL.....Granted that we are handicapped by working from photos, but I agree that there are definite indications of the use of fountain pens.

    All of these positive opinions/asses smell like something I, too, would buy to use like BSIWULA1 for JUXTAPOSITION in a collection to add the proper "atmosphere" to break the ice and start a discussion with guests.........FRANZISKANER DOUG.

  11. #30
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    Quote by UK Cousin View Post
    I guess the only way to find out for sure is to get it in my hands, therefore 30 or 40 pictures won't be a problem. There is also content I have not seen yet.
    Yes. get it if price is right. Great thread so far with differing views. I'm in the camp that it is period and written by a fountain pen as I stated earlier. But having it in hand will tell for sure.

    My only open point are the actual cut out pictures...they sure look like they came off a laser printer...lol. only way to tell however is having it in hand
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

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