How can i check the autenticity of documents and signatures?

[fpicoli]

Hi,
i would like to know how could i check the autenticity of award documents and it's signatures. For an example, based on the period these commanding officers were in charge ( General der Infanterie Erich Straube, 1 September 1939 – 6 January 1942 / Generalleutnant Heinz Greiner, 6 January 1942 – Nov 1943) the documents dates are plausible. I read that the use of the "black light" would help identifying post-war fake papers. In my oppinion, these are originals. But, i would like more tips on how to spot "red flags" on these kind of items. For an example: Is there a database of signatures? If not, i think it would make a amazing topic to start...am i right?
Regards

[hucks216]

The best way to authenticate things like this is to buy books and study, study, study. There are so many areas to cover when it comes to authenticating paperwork that without books you will get nowhere fast - Orders Of Battle, Commanders, Signatures, Dates & Ranks, Were sub-units loaned to other divisions at certain times (hence why sometimes a soldier in one regiment will have a citation stamped & signed by a Commander of a completely different division), Issuing authorities, Abbreviations and on & on.
While some people swear by blacklighting I think it is a very flawed system in that a citation may well be original but at some point in the last 65 years has come into contact with a modern chemical that has transferred onto the citation and so makes it glow - very easily done.

As for signature databases, there are a handful. Namely...
Germany: Signature Database - Gentleman's Military Interest Club
Dokumentenforum.de | Bekannte Persönlichkeiten
Axis History Forum • View topic - Third Reich signatures.

And as a pointer at just a start as to what books you should be on the look out for...
Reference Works For Paperwork Collectors - Gentleman's Military Interest Club

As for the two you have shown, they look ok.

[Paul D]

Great advice Hucks !!

[goodbuys]

I have articles on the blacklight and as huck216 has stated do not use it as some collector/dealers do as the only tool as thats what it is a tool that with books, and practical experience will help you check on what is a fake document or a real one!Try to pickup a copy of Volume I OF Charles Hamilton's "LEADERS & PERSONALITIES OF THE THIRD REICH on Ebay sometimes or check dealers lists on the internet.Their is a Volume II and thats a great book to continue after Volume I.Also deal with those who are dealers with paper and know what they are selling!Not easy but you will see after awhile whats a fake and whats not.Also make sure the document conforms to what is an authentic piece or not.Carl

[hucks216]

I forgot to say that a very under-rated thing to use as to whether something is genuine or not is your gut feeling - it might not be 100% accurate (or scientific) but it will save you money more often then not, even if all it does is lead you to ask others for advice because something you have seen leaves you with doubts.

[fpicoli]

Until i get more experienced, the last advise is the one i use more often (gut-feeling).
Thanks, those websites and book references will be very helpful in the future.
Regards

Fábio

[fpicoli]

I guess that these (from the same recipient) are originals too.
(Although the Officer signatures i couldn't recognize)

[hucks216]

Aye, they are fine with the Black Wound Badge citation being issued at the hospital.

[fpicoli]

I used your advise and checked the Erich Straube and Heinz Greiner signatures on Dokumentenforum.de and they really match.
That is a very useful database. Thanks again for the tip.
Regards,

Fabio

[hucks216]

I used your advise and checked the Erich Straube and Heinz Greiner signatures on Dokumentenforum.de and they really match.
That is a very useful database. Thanks again for the tip.
Regards,

Fabio

Don't forget that it is just one resource. When it comes to paperwork collecting you usually need to use a few to check all the details.
And an idea for future references is to start your own database files for signatures which will come in useful over time (and with a little luck) for identifying lesser known, or less high ranking signatures.
Paperwork collecting is much more interesting then medal collecting as you can collect literally hundreds of EK citations (for example) and each one is unique because it was awarded to an individual soldier/airman/sailor for his actions (or his unit's actions for the 'unit' awarded ones), rather then an EK medal which may well of sat in some storeroom for the duration of the war.