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Scottish Hitler Youth lol? Is this the former leader of the SNP Arthur Donaldson?

Article about: Hello all. I have this photo of a man in a kilt with boys in the Hitler Youth. Did some research and was wondering if this was the former Leader of the Scottish SNP Arthur Donaldson. Did he

  1. #11
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    "Mr McGoering" - (from the Bell and Compasses)

    Monty python-hitler scene! - YouTube

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  3. #12

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    Quote by Gary J View Post
    "Mr McGoering" - (from the Bell and Compasses)

    Monty python-hitler scene! - YouTube
    Hilarious!!!

  4. #13

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    I would agree with Nick, photo location is Scotland.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #14

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    Another clue is the Shell gas pump behind the group. Shell Oil was an Anglo-Dutch company. It should be possible to find out if Shell was in Germany in the 1930's. I do agree, however, that I also believe that this photo is from Scotland. Note the Other group in the background to the left. Another man in a Kilt and Tam talking to 2 young lads. From the looks of this, apparently, the HJ must have made a "field trip" to Scotland sometime before the 1939 hostilities began.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #15

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    Here's a fuzzy close-up of the Shell pump. Sorry I couldn't do better. Can anyone decipher what the writing right to the Shell globe says? Perhaps that can give us a clue as to whether the location is Scotland or Germany.
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  7. #16

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    It is too pixelated. Maybe a 1200dpi .tif file might be more useful with a bit of photo enhancement in photoshop or similar.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  8. #17

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    How the Hitler Youth extended the hand of friendship to the British Boy Scouts

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    It's known that at least seven substantial Hitler Youth groups, each of about twenty young men, took cycling holidays in Britain in the 1930s. These were generally the older members of the Hitler Youth: in their late teens or early twenties.

    Their itineraries were usually built round visits to the great English historic sites - Oxford, Cambridge, London. Though one party was touring Scotland and another finished in Wales.

    In July 1937, 22 young German university students, who were members of the South Bavarian troop of the Hitler Youth, toured Lincolnshire and were entertained by Spalding Rotary Club who fed them a 'sausage and mashed potato supper'. Apparently they charmed the local people with their good manners.

    Some of the Hitler Youth groups met or shared camps with British Boy Scout groups. The most striking was the Tamworth Scout troop - for whom this was a return visit. They had already been guests of the Hitler Youth in Hamburg earlier in the summer, thanks to their very pro-German Scoutmaster.

    They had stayed at a Hitler Youth camp and even taken part in a torchlight rally. One of the boys, Les Fardon, told Radio 4's Document Programme some years ago: "It was like a Roman legion," he said. "You had these long banners and you were marching to tune... it was very stirring"

    Another of his fellow Scouts remembered it as being a very exciting trip, and he recalled how even the British boys fell into doing the "Heil Hitler" salute. "They liked you to do it," he added. Both boys made friends with some of the Germans.

    When the Hitler Youth came to visit them in England, it proved controversial, and prompted intense debate in the pages of the local paper, the Birmingham Post. The head of MI5 asked to see the letters sent to the newspaper.

    The most pro-German was R. Charles Lines who wrote about the farewell supper for the Hitler Youth: "Many remarks passed to me by Tamworth residents showed very plainly what a wonderful impression these boys have made during their stay. There is no doubt that Tamworth has thoroughly enjoyed entertaining them and I know how splendidly local people have risen to the occasion"
    In 1938 Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scout movement, had a warm meeting with two Hitler Youth leaders, Hartmann Lautenbacher and Jochen Beneman, as well as the then German Ambassador Joachim von Ribbentrop - later Hitler's foreign minister.

    Baden-Powell wrote to von Ribbentrop: 'I want to offer my grateful thanks for your kindness in receiving me yesterday and giving me the opportunity of meeting Mr Beneman and Mr Hartmann Lautenbacher.

    'More especially, I am grateful for the kind conversation you accorded me which opened my eyes to the feeling of your country towards Britain, which I may say, reciprocates exactly the feeling which I have for Germany.'

    'True peace between the two nations will depend on the youth being brought up on friendly terms together in forgetfulness of past differences.'

    Baden-Powell was invited to visit Hitler in Berlin. However, no meeting took place because war broke out the following year.

  9. #18

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    "I know he was jailed by the British for being a "Quisling" Scottish Nationalist in 1941."

    Hi, just popped in and registered to mention that some unsavoury type is using this photograph as proof that Arthur Donaldson was a Nazi.

    The reality is that he was not jailed or interred as the other chap claims. Donaldson was held in Barlinnie for six weeks of questioning until he was released...without charge. The source? Tom Johnson, the wartime Secretary of State for Scotland in his biography 'Memoirs' . The charge was that "subversive literature and a large cache of weapons" were removed from the home of R.E. Muirhead a leading light of the SNP.

    Johnson writes of this in his biography as follows:

    “At the time, somebody took it upon himself to hint to the police that Roland might be a sympathiser with Hitler, or at any rate anti-English, to warrant a raid upon his house. A raid duly took place and after some locks had been forced there was borne off in triumph a sporting rifle of the last century vintage which had belonged to an uncle or brother...plus a few rounds of revolver ammunition, but no revolver. Fortunately, there existed at the time in the offices of the Crown Prosecutor and the Lord Advocate a sense of humour, and the engines of war referred to were hurriedly ordered to be returned, so that Roland Muirhead was deprived of a martyr’s crown...But he complains that he has never yet been compensated for the damage to his locks.”

    The MI5 mastermind behind the raid was Richard Brooman-White, the future Tory MP for Rutherglen and Scotland office minister.

    Brooman-White claimed that an anonymous, never-to-be-named informant told him that Muirhead, Donaldson and company were intent on welcoming the Nazis to Scotland and setting up a Quisling style puppet government. Brooman-White was a Lieutenant in the MI5 section which dealt with the mysterious sounding 'Celtic Movements'. This department came under the supervision of senior spymaster Guy Liddell. Whom some of you may have heard of before. Here's what Liddell himself had to say:

    “We have formed a new section under Dick Brooman-White to deal with the Celtic movements. The Germans had obviously done a good deal of work in the Breton movement and it may be that to some degree they have done the same work here.”

    So no evidence other than a tenous 'Celtic' link between Brittany and Scotland...

    Unfortunately the ever compliant Scottish media chose to believe the 'quisling story' and polluted Donaldson's obituary with the claims. Donaldson far from being a fascist Nazi supporter, was a dissident in so much as he, hid conscience objectors, and campaigned for an end to the forced resettlement of young Scottish women to work in munitions factory's in England.

    The unhinged Rudolf Hess crash landed on Eaglesham moor whilst trying to find the Duke of Hamilton's estate believing him to be a man he could negotiate with.

    I have no idea who the chap in the kilt is, but I think it hugely unlikely that a pacifist, egalitarian, defender of woman's rights like Arthur Donaldson would have espoused Nazi ideals and had a box brownie selfie taken in presumably 1938.

    cheers

    PS Where did you find the original photograph?

  10. #19

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Another clue is the Shell gas pump behind the group. Shell Oil was an Anglo-Dutch company. It should be possible to find out if Shell was in Germany in the 1930's. I do agree, however, that I also believe that this photo is from Scotland. Note the Other group in the background to the left. Another man in a Kilt and Tam talking to 2 young lads. From the looks of this, apparently, the HJ must have made a "field trip" to Scotland sometime before the 1939 hostilities began.
    Well done for good recce skills!

    I spotted the other kilt and the shell pump too.

    I am certain from his appearance this is Donaldson, the family Donaldson is a Sept of the Clan Donald (MacDonald is a branch) and the tartan of his kilt looks a lot like one of the Donald undress or hunting tartans.

    As for the pump I think that is a SATAM "wing door" manual pump which were made in France in the '30s.

    This brings me to the location itself. The architecture doesn't look like Scotland at all to me, more like France and reminds me of the Pyrenees so perhaps a hostel type establishment in France or possibly neutral Spain?

    Regards

    Mark

    PS I would welcome DialMformurdo to the forum but your post opening line suggests you are not interested in militaria and associated history which is what we are about here. Hopefully I have the wrong impression and we have a properly motivated new member as we "don't do politics" here as a matter of course
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    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  11. #20

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    I did, just recently saw a German time periode pic with a hand shell pump behind a iron fence, just don't remember where it was.........
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    Always looking for Belgian Congo stuff!
    cheers
    |<ris

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