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SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

Article about: I can comment on the SS dagger. These are fantasy designs and no documentation of these exist for them being Third Reich in date. They originated from a militaria dealer in the North of Engl

  1. #11

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    I can comment on the SS dagger. These are fantasy designs and no documentation of these exist for them being Third Reich in date. They originated from a militaria dealer in the North of England in the 1960's and only a small quantity were ever made. The grip will be real Ivory. They can be found with various dedications to different SS notables from Himmler downwards. The crosguards can be found with either swastikas or oakleaf decoration.

    I cannot comment on the documents, but I would trust to my colleagues opinion on things of this nature.

    The desk ornament set is indeed grotesque. Himmler was many things, but he did have a certain amount of "taste".

    I expect someone has paid a lot of money for this "group".

    Cheers, Ade.

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  3. #12
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    Thanks for the input Adrian.
    I don't know what the Austrian's motives were in this episode as our communication ended abruptly. I don't know if he was a collector who had been duped or if he was part of a prospective scam. If he was a victim, I hope he recovered his financial outlay as authentic items such as these realise large sums of money.
    W.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    I'll post some more scans later.
    W.

  5. #14
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    Quote by Woske View Post
    OK, the story so far..........................
    I get contacted by a man in Austria who I do not know. He tells me that he has heard I have an interest in Odilo Globocnik and that he has several high end personal items that belonged to Globocnik in his collection. He states that he obtained these original items from the Globocnik family in Austria. He asks if I have any original Globocnik items and also says he is willing to let me have photos of his items. Subsequently, these photos and some photocopies arrive in the mail. I immediately have serious doubts about these items and tell the guy of my concerns. He states he has obtained them from a woman who says she is the daughter of a very senior SS General (name provided) and that her family and the Globocnik family are very close. The guy says he has paid a lot of money for the collection. He says he is happy that the collection is authentic, so I give him the initial reasons for my doubts:
    1) The Hitler signed document.
    The post of HSSPF Lublin never existed. Globocnik was SSPF Lublin under HSSPF Ost.
    I am unhappy with the Hitler signature which looks contrived.
    2) The 13 Sept 1943 document.
    Incorrect appointment title. Post was HSSPF Operations Zone Adriatic Coastland.
    I am unhappy with the Himmler signature.
    3) Vorschlag 18 Jan 1945.
    I am unhappy with both the Himmler and Schmundt signatures.
    4) The 22 Nov 1932 document.
    I am unhappy with the Globocnik signature.
    I am unhappy with the ink stamp.
    5) The 13 Sept 1943 letter.
    I am unhappy with the Himmler signature.
    The salutation is too personal…. “Lieber Globus” is more appropriate.
    6) The desk set.
    Too tacky for the reserved Himmler. It is way over the top and is more akin to a fairground prize.
    Poor quality engraving.
    7) The SS dagger.
    I am no edged weapons expert, but I believe the white handle daggers were fantasy items produced post-war.
    The engraving is extremely low quality.
    8) The Damascus letter opener.
    Poor quality steel that is not indicative of the Müller Damascus process.
    Low quality engraving.
    I also informed the Austrian that I believe some of the documents were offered for sale in the USA a few years ago, but I could be mistaken. I did not hear from him again.
    Any comments welcome.
    Woske.
    I see !! I must admit i assumed ( always dangeroues to assume ) that you had already vetted the signatures as correct before posting them as i know you have an extremely good knowledge on the signatures of Hitler , Himmler and other Third Reich figures as you have proved in other threads and that the provenance of the items was serious and unquestionable, your posts certainly gave that impression.

    That is obviously not the case but i'm not sure why you didn't post the lack of real provenance and your concern and opinions on the items and signatures in the first place ???
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  6. #15
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    Quote by Paul E View Post
    I see !! I must admit i assumed ( always dangeroues to assume ) that you had already vetted the signatures as correct before posting them as i know you have an extremely good knowledge on the signatures of Hitler , Himmler and other Third Reich figures as you have proved in other threads and that the provenance of the items was serious and unquestionable, your posts certainly gave that impression.

    That is obviously not the case but i'm not sure why you didn't post the lack of real provenance and your concern and opinions on the items and signatures in the first place ???
    Paul,
    Several reasons, none nefarious. Please remember that I only provide an opinion which could be wrong.
    The area of collecting personality pieces is becoming more and more popular and consequently forgers have moved into this field with a vengeance. These items appear to most people to be genuine pieces and I wanted to illustrate how you should look closely at anything you are considering buying. I also wanted to show the lengths that some forgers go to in order to complete a deception. In this case, the financial outlay was incredible, so the rewards can also be vast. Apart from that, I wanted other untainted opinions before giving mine. It's always best to have a fresh opinion without the possibility of bias because someone else has already given theirs. As stated, I am no dagger expert and there is always the possibility that my knowledge on this subject is flawed. I decided to let it run for a day before making my own comment and I did appraise Adrian Stevenson by PM before my first post to ensure that I did it correctly and posted in the right place.
    If you feel slightly aggrieved because you made positive comments about the collection, I apologise as I had no intention in doing so. We are all vulnerable in this vast area of collecting and I admit to being duped myself not so long ago. It's never too late to improve knowledge. I could still be wrong on these bits!
    Best regards,
    Woske.

  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    The positive comments were made only as a result of my assumption that your assessment of the pieces and your knowledge of the provenance showed them too be good, from the tone of your initial posts i believed that to be the case.

    I didn't realise that you had posted these items for opinions which to be fair on Himmler sigs and pieces of art i'm not qualified to give so my only feeling of being aggrieved in the fact your own opinion wasn't given from the start and i broke one of my rules about not assuming anything !!

    It looks like your Austrian friend has assumed too much and is now heavily out of pocket
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #17
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    Close-ups of Hitler and Himmler signatures in this collection.
    W.
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  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    For comparison; a Himmler signature from my collection.
    W.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #19
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    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    Low quality engraving on the dagger.
    W.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #20

    Default Re: SS-Gruf. Odilo Globocnik collection

    The engraving is poor but the presence of an RZM mark on what purports to be a presentation peice is a further condemnation.

    Cheers, Ade.

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