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SS Totenkopf + Hitler youth Group

Article about: Hi guys im sure this group is original. I would like some advice on its price as i'm unsure how much groups sell for. But i know SS items carry a premium. It really is a very nice group, HJ

  1. #11

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    But how difficult is it for someone to have that paperwork and then add an EK I to the set and use the paperwork to add the details? It just amazes me sometimes - and this is in no way a dig at anyone - how people take such things for granted even though the asking prices are far from being pennies.

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  3. #12

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    No dig taken. I respect your thoroughness Hucks and have benefited myself in the past from it. I hope you never compromise it.

    This is where someone with a more discerning eye than I have would need to examine the engraving to tell if it's legitimate. I make no claims on the authenticity one way or another, but merely point out if it were determined to be an authentic engraving, there is far from no other provenance to go with it here. And, that perhaps the set is worth further examination (especially if we're talking about someone buying it anyway for the documents). After all, if original, that is a very cool piece of Third Reich history. If someone were to tell me there's no way to tell if an engraving is authentic, then I question how you would ever choose one engraved piece over another or rather why one wouldn't just stay away from them altogether. Surely there are ways to verify it that don't require written testimony or photos, or as I mentioned earlier every dagger and sword out there is in the same boat (and maybe they are).

    It seems like with any of these items we collect that once we've done our due diligence, we still have to have some measure of faith that the fakers haven't managed to perfect their skills and deceive us all. If there's one thing I've learned from my time here on this fine forum, certainty is becoming increasingly hard to come by, which I think also compliments your high standards for scrutiny as well.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  4. #13

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    thanks guys some interesting discussion going on here,
    the owner said he bought it in 2007 don't know how true it is, but he was the person who applied for the research in 2011 as its his name on the piece of paper.
    so it does fit with the dates.


    so do SS daggers come with these type engraving also and people don't question them?
    but if you look at the group as just a HJ docs and some lose awards i dont think its worth the asking price.

  5. #14

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    Quote by avenger View Post
    It seems like with any of these items we collect that once we've done our due diligence, we still have to have some measure of faith that the fakers haven't managed to perfect their skills and deceive us all. If there's one thing I've learned from my time here on this fine forum, certainty is becoming increasingly hard to come by, which I think also compliments your high standards for scrutiny as well.
    And there is the crux of the matter. The war ended 70 years ago and the fakers have been around since then in one form or another. After that amount of time, practice, trial & error and learning from previous fakers and their mistakes who is to say that the present day professional fakers haven't already perfected their art? It used to be that the paperwork side of the hobby wasn't as badly hit as other parts as it was hard to get the right signature and a stamp that passed muster but now there are faked authorising stamps that would fool anyone as they match the originals (and it is easy to do with a good scanner and acetate printer) and signatures that look just like the original rather than a poor squiggled attempt.
    I think that for every level of collector, from newcomer to millionaire high-end collector, there is a faker (or fakers) that caters to their target market.

  6. #15

  7. #16

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    good find and interesting read seems the cross is not right.

    i will be giving this group a miss as the price is to high

    Best Martin

  8. #17

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    Quote by hucks216 View Post
    And there is the crux of the matter. The war ended 70 years ago and the fakers have been around since then in one form or another. After that amount of time, practice, trial & error and learning from previous fakers and their mistakes who is to say that the present day professional fakers haven't already perfected their art? It used to be that the paperwork side of the hobby wasn't as badly hit as other parts as it was hard to get the right signature and a stamp that passed muster but now there are faked authorising stamps that would fool anyone as they match the originals (and it is easy to do with a good scanner and acetate printer) and signatures that look just like the original rather than a poor squiggled attempt.
    I think that for every level of collector, from newcomer to millionaire high-end collector, there is a faker (or fakers) that caters to their target market.
    I can't argue with that sir! And, by the looks of the thread over at WAF where we get a closer look at the EK1, you've been 100% right about this one. It appears on close examination that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  9. #18

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    Quote by avenger View Post
    It appears on close examination that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
    And yet despite that thread on the WAF showing that the EK I is a dud the current owner (and it is Mr Harrington's name at the top of the WASt paperwork) has just tried to sell it to Martin (ironcross13) as a genuine piece! Not very ethical at all.

  10. #19

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    Quote by hucks216 View Post
    And yet despite that thread on the WAF showing the EK I is a dud the current owner (and it is Mr Harrington's name at the top of the WASt paperwork) has just tried to sell it to Martin (ironcross13) as a genuine piece! Not very ethical at all.
    The same guy is the seller on this!? No, I'd say not at all ethical if he is purporting this is an authentic piece of the collection. It should have gone in a box and been separated from the group to protect its integrity.

    I'd question the whole group from here IMO. I was willing to give it the shadow of the doubt pending a closer look, but the whole thing stinks at this point if you ask me if it's tied to that kind of dishonesty.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  11. #20

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    Thanks guys, he did not show me the thread on WAF good find he did not send a pic of the front of the cross,
    do you guys know him or something.

    he stopped replying to my emails as i asked quite a lot of questions

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