SS Totenkopf + Hitler youth Group

[hucks216]

Bear in mind that he has told Martin that he has owned the group since 2007 which fits the time frame for the WAF thread and now. Here are two screenshots from the thread showing he is admitting ownership and the second one admitting he got burned. The third shows his name (as also shown as his thread Username) on the WASt paperwork. And as the EK I has now been shown to be a dud what does that say about having trust in the rest of the medals being original to the paperwork? For me, no trust at all.

[hucks216]

Thanks guys, he did not show me the thread on WAF good find he did not send a pic of the front of the cross,
do you guys know him or something.

he stopped replying to my emails as i asked quite a lot of questions

No, I don't know him.

[ironcross13]

I did ask him if he had anything for sale he showed me this and one more group, but as my interest is SS thats why i was looking at this.

I did not see this thread,

[avenger]

If it were me looking at it, and assuming we're talking SS dollars here, I'd have to weight the facts. We have a set whose back story is that Kyle and another person have somehow ended up splitting the set either by design or coincidence. The other guy got the soldbuch, or so the story says:

Bruhns lived well into his 80's, possibly 90's The previous owner of the group contacted him.The EK1 came with a lot of paperwork, HJ stuff , map, oath newspaper clippings and a Soldbuch which is owned by a WAF member here with the correct date inserted into the SB. The owner had the EK1 engraved whilst in a Lazarett after he was badly wounded outside of Warsaw in August 1944, he received a silver wound badge for the same action.

The EK isn't just fake engraved, the medal itself isn't passing the grade. For all we know, if the EK1 is in the Soldbuch, it may have been written in after the war casting doubts on that piece as well. Only the EK2 is on the research documentation. So, the story becomes very suspect, and anything related to it as well IMO without an in hand evaluation from a knowledgeable party.

The seller is at best electing to not disclose the known details of the items in the set. We know there are excellent quality fakes about, and that this set has likely been a party to that. I would be very reluctant to make a purchase on it, and would have a hard time wanting to do business with a seller who is passing off known and admitted fakes without disclosing them. A mere "I have had the documents checked out, but I know the EK1 is probably a post war addition and reproduction" would have gone a long way towards assuaging my concerns given the evidence, but even then probably not enough for me to buy it.

All just IMO of course, for what it's worth.

[hucks216]

I agree. It makes the whole "The previous owner contacted the soldier..." story very dubious. The asking price that it was offered to Martin at was £850 (approx $1330). That is a price that says it is being passed off as genuine as no mention is made about the doubts expressed by others, exactly what you said about addressing your concerns.

The relevant EK I entry in the Soldbuch may be fake or it may be genuine (but will we ever know now the actual medal has been shown to be a dud?) and if genuine it could well be the entry details that were used to engrave the cross. It might even be the case that the rest of the medals are original to the group but someone saw that the EK I was missing and decided to get one and 'beef it up' to increase the asking price. But if it is genuine then why no mention on the WASt paperwork when it does mention the EK I?
This all boils down to the original conundrum - why take such items at face value from a person or persons that we have never met and know nothing about? It is an old and oft-repeated saying but seems to fit perfectly here - 'Believe the item and not the story'.

[ironcross13]

yeah thanks again guys that's why i always post stuff that i'm unsure about.
you can't trust what alot people say in this hobby people seem to lie, a lot of good guys out there also.

It seems the EK1 was added and is a fake, the group was split by some one to make more money from it add the engraved EK1.

The seller did stop replying to me as i asked a lot of questions which is normal when buying a item, i dont own any paper work docs ex. so im not very well educated with them.
it's been a interesting thread

[Paul D]

Well done gents in what has been a three man discussion and investigation achievinbg the correct result and saving a member £850 . A salutory lesson for all here i think about not accepting things in this hobby on face value.

Many thanks thanks again to Kevin for his great experience and his willingness to share it.

As for the seller another one to add to the list of those who are willing to knowingly attempt to pass on fake items !