Value of SS contract of sevice belonging to Hans Weiss

[Scout]

Interesting document.

[drmessimer]

Paul E: I agree that two years is a long time to wait for a promotion to become effective. But as I understand it, in 1934 the SS was not yet operating as a military unit in the sense that it shared common policies and procedures with the Wehrmacht, but was instead a separate pseudomilitary entity within the NSADP, which had its own unique policies and practices. I might be wrong in that perception, but if I'm right then a two-year delay could have been a reasonable expectation for a developing career path. I don't offer my take on the issue as fact, but just an opinion based on my own experiences as a researcher. The point that I'm stuck on is that, if the document is genuine--and I think it is--then Hans Weiss was recognized by the SS administration as an officer, or at least an officer candidate, when he signed that contract. Dwight

[tempelhof]

gentlemen, i feel i must apologize for the total mediocrity of my earlier posts to this thread. they were made from a phone and i realize now i was not even able to see anything of the photos that were posted.

last time i will try to be useful on the way to a restaurant by phone.

good discussion and, as per usual, great translation from HPL2008.

carry on...

[Killerkatanas]

Paul, I do appologize if you were offended by my reply that the item was fake. Please understand that I have a history of this type of attitude towards many of my signatures purchased from Stefan Korlin over at the WAF. That site seems dedicated to destoying him. With that said, I was hoping for a more sensible attitude here. My reply was meant to be a "oh no, not again" type of response, but it is difficult to discern the tone with forum postings.

Many of my Stefan signatures have been criticized over at WAF, but never has this document. Indeed, it was accepted as a true document within the forum, and used as an example for Himmler and Weiss signatures. Though I believe whole-heartedly that Stefan's items are legitimate, the ordeal has made me really rethink if I want to continue collecting signatures anymore, and the answer is no. I know what I paid for this document, but what it is really worth I do not know.

The Weiss item was purchased several years ago via Leisure Galleries. The document apparently was on the market for a while, according to those over at the Wehrmacht Awards Forum. When I was offered it, I immediately recognized the two names that the COA was by. Ray and Josephine have a terrific reputation as Third Reich document examiners. I have one of their books in my collection, as well as another item that was confirmed by them.

[Good Pwny]

Interesting doc! I hope it is legit because this would be a sick piece! Also, the storage is very important. Is it framed in 'friendly' material? Like PVC free plastic and matting?

[Adrian]

I'm not going to venture an opinion on authenticity as I really don't know but.......

Does anyone have an issue with the areas around the punched holes? To my eye, these areas look suspicious and would benefit from a closer examination if killerkatanas could provide some better images?

If kept in a ring binder, surely these ares would be kept cleaner than the rest? And if whatever casued this discolouration is natural over time, why only affect this area of the paper? Would we not expect to see discolouration elsewhere? Especially considering the depth and extent of the colour.

[Paul D]

Paul, I do appologize if you were offended by my reply that the item was fake. Please understand that I have a history of this type of attitude towards many of my signatures purchased from Stefan Korlin over at the WAF. That site seems dedicated to destoying him. With that said, I was hoping for a more sensible attitude here. My reply was meant to be a "oh no, not again" type of response, but it is difficult to discern the tone with forum postings.

Many of my Stefan signatures have been criticized over at WAF, but never has this document. Indeed, it was accepted as a true document within the forum, and used as an example for Himmler and Weiss signatures. Though I believe whole-heartedly that Stefan's items are legitimate, the ordeal has made me really rethink if I want to continue collecting signatures anymore, and the answer is no. I know what I paid for this document, but what it is really worth I do not know.

The Weiss item was purchased several years ago via Leisure Galleries. The document apparently was on the market for a while, according to those over at the Wehrmacht Awards Forum. When I was offered it, I immediately recognized the two names that the COA was by. Ray and Josephine have a terrific reputation as Third Reich document examiners. I have one of their books in my collection, as well as another item that was confirmed by them.

No problem Brian i wasn't offended at all , for me as i have stated the Weiss sig looks correct from originals i have seen and i know that the Himmler sig has been seen by Max History whose opinion on such signatures i allude too , the only thing that is strage too me is that of rank which has been pointed out for which there may be an explanation such as that put forward by Dwight , i am hoping that someone with more knowledge than i on documents from this early period of the SS can provide the solution to this. I hope our discussion here has provided you with a more sensible and considered discussion as the only link i could find on WAF on the document didn't seem to illicit much response or discussion other than Max.

I know Max used to post here but not for some time i believe , it may be worth contacting him and soliciting his opinion,

regards

Paul

[drmessimer]

Adrian: You have raised another interesting point regarding the discoloration around the punch holes. Sandgroper (post#8) was also attracted to the discoloration which he suggest might be burn or stain. I too wondered what caused it but put it down to the chemical reaction between the acidic paper used in that period with the metal binder rings, which were probably either aluminum or common steel. Dwight

[Killerkatanas]

From what I was told, the document was presented to Ray and Josephine prior to it being framed. Afterwards, an owner of the document (I assume the original one whom Ray and Josephine did the authentication for) had it framed. It is mounted on acid-free board and has museum-quality glass.

Later I learned from one source over at the WAF, the document was fixed in place using glue, which "greatly reduces its value."

[drmessimer]

Killerkatanas: Regarding your post #24 in which you wrote, "Though I believe whole-heartedly that Stefan's items are legitimate, the ordeal has made me really rethink if I want to continue collecting signatures anymore, and the answer is no." May I urge you to reconsider. With regard to the document under scrutiny, no one has directly challenged its authenticity and the discussion has been focused on the apparent discrepency between the rank on the document and Weiss's rank according to other sources. I can understand that you have been treated unfairly on another forum, but if you are secure in the fact that your documrnt(s) is/are genuine, don't let nay-sayers convince you otherwise. Every time you lay out a document for general viewing, opinion, and discussion you are going to get doubters. It doesn't matter how solid your authenticity documentation is, someone will say it's not genuine. Ignore them. Don't stop pursuing a hobby you enjoy because of negative responses from the uninformed and argumentative. With regard to the discussion that this thead produced, I found it very interesting and challenging, but in no way an assault on the authenticity of your document. I hope you will reconsider your decision. The Best to you. Dwight