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Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,please ?

Article about: by LwowAK So the question is, how do we decide what is a treasure and isn't? If there is no clear definition, then perhaps everything should stay.... The Polish state has already defined wha

  1. #1

    Default Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,please ?

    If anyone in Poland could agree to receive small items of Polish militaria and send them on to me in England, please ?

    Now the Polish export law has been amended - here is the Allegro page in full to confirm this.

    (13. Kolekcje o znaczeniu historycznym).

    > Jakie są zasady wywozu zabytków za granicę?
    > Handel zabytkami regulowany jest wieloma przepisami. Dotyczą onetakże wywozu zabytków i przedmiotów zabytkowych z Polski.
    > Nowa ustawa o ochronie zabytków
    > 5 czerwca 2010 roku weszła w życie nowelizacja ustawy o ochroniezabytków i opiece nad zabytkami. Uprościła ona i złagodziłaprzepisy dotyczące sprzedaży i wywozu tego typu przedmiotów zkraju. Dotychczas zagraniczna wysyłka każdego przedmiotu starszegoniż 55 lat wymagała specjalnego zezwolenia. Dotyczyło to zarównocennych zabytków, jak i mniej wartościowych staroci i pamiątek. Od5 czerwca polskie prawo pozwala wywozić z kraju wszystkieprzedmioty zabytkowe poza szczególnie cennymi i wartościowymi.
    > Wywóz z pozwoleniem
    > Obowiązek uzyskania pozwolenia na wywóz zabytku uzależniony jest odjego kategorii, wieku i wartości. Pozwolenie wydaje ministerkultury. Jeżeli zabytek posiada szczególną wartość dla dziedzictwakulturowego, minister może odmówić wydania pozwolenia.
    > Sprawdź w tabeli poniżej, jakie przedmioty wymagają odpowiedniegozezwolenia na wywóz.
    > Kategoria zabytku Wiek powyżej: Wartość wyższa niż:

    > 1. Zabytki archeologiczne, które wchodzą w skład zbiorówarcheologicznych lub zostały pozyskane w wyniku badańarcheologicznych bądź przypadkowych odkryć. 100 lat ---

    > 2. Elementy stanowiące integralną część zabytków architektury,wystroju wnętrz, pomników, posągów i dzieł rzemiosła artystycznego.100 lat ---
    > 3. Dzieła malarstwa wykonane dowolną techniką i na dowolnymmateriale oraz nieobjęte kategoriami nr 4 i 5. 50 lat 40 000 złotych

    > 4. Akwarele, gwasze i pastele wykonane na dowolnym materiale. 50lat 16 000 złotych

    > 5. Mozaiki oraz rysunki wykonane dowolną techniką i na dowolnymmateriale oraz nieobjęte kategoriami 1 i 2. 50 lat 12 000 złotych

    > 6. Oryginalne dzieła grafiki i matryce do ich wykonania orazoryginalne plakaty. 50 lat 16000 złotych

    > 7. Oryginalne rzeźby, posągi lub ich kopie wykonane tą samątechniką co oryginał oraz nieobjęte kategorią nr 1. 50 lat 20 000złotych

    > 8. Pojedyncze fotografie, filmy oraz ich negatywy. 50 lat 6 000 złotych

    > 9. Pojedyncze lub znajdujące się w zbiorach rękopisy. 50 lat 4 000 złotych

    > 10. Pojedyncze lub znajdujące się w zbiorach książki. 100 lat 6 000 złotych

    > 11. Pojedyncze mapy drukowane i partytury. 150 lat 6 000 złotych

    > 12. Kolekcje i przedmioty z kolekcji zoologicznych, botanicznych,mineralnych lub anatomicznych. --- 16 000 złotych

    > 13. Kolekcje o znaczeniu historycznym, paleontologicznym,etnograficznym lub numizmatycznym. --- 16 000 złotych

    > 14. Środki transportu. 50 lat 32 000 złotych

    > 15. Inne zabytki nieobjęte kategoriami od 1 do 14. 50 lat 16 000złotych
    > Wywóz bez pozwolenia
    > Przedmioty spoza tabeli można wywozić bez pozwolenia, podwarunkiem, że:
    > * nie są to zabytki wpisane do rejestru zabytków,
    > * nie wchodzą do zbiorów publicznych,
    > * nie znajdują się w inwentarzach muzealnych i kościelnych lub wnarodowym zasobie bibliotecznym.
    > Pozwolenia na wywóz za granicę nie wymagają też zabytkiprzywiezione do Polski z krajów Unii Europejskiej na okres niedłuższy niż 3 lata.
    > Dodatkowe zaświadczenie
    > W uzasadnionych przypadkach wywóz zabytku może zostać uzależnionyod okazania dokumentu potwierdzającego, że nie wymaga on stosownegopozwolenia. Dokumentem takim jest m.in. ocena wskazująca czaspowstania zabytku i jego wycena, a także faktura zawierająca danepozwalające na identyfikację przedmiotu.

    I would be extremely grateful and would pay a reasonable price for their postage and help.

    I am the grandson of a Polish veteran who was born in 1914 near Warsaw (I think in Lublin) he volenteered to join the Canadian Army in WW2 (1940-1945) and ended the war as a staff sargeant.

    I am collecting these items in his memory (his alternative wartime history if he had stayed in Poland).

    Thank You

    Justin1939

    jacquetta44@yahoo.com

  2. #2

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    Hi Justin,

    It’s good to hear that the era of prohibition relating to the items of our desire is being relaxed. It may be a good idea to provide an English translation summary of some of the key points for the benefit of the non-Polish speaking members here.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  3. #3

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    I'm not entushiast of this changes. In my opinion polish state should care about keeping polish antiques/militaria in Poland. That's not ok that some of the rarest items are still somewhere all over the world. I would rather like to see those items coming back to Poland instead new leaving somewhere else. All soldiers who were using or wearing those items fought for Poland and it's independence. That's why they should be coming home instead of being a part of fancy collections all over the world (like stamps, car collections etc.) . For memoirs and celebration of soldiers sacrifice.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    Hi Pat,

    Do you think the Polish state should buy up all the Polish militaria that comes up for sale both in Poland and abroad?

    Do you think it should be illegal in Poland for Poles to sell Polish militaria or just to sell to non-Poles ?

    What about all those Poles whose parents and grandparents fought for freedom (but lived as 'exiles' all over the world) should we not be allowed to own/collect Poilsh militaria? What about our family decorations should they be repatriated back 'home' to Poland? Where in Poland should these decorations go? If every Monte Cassino Cross issued was to be returned home to Poland what would Poland do with thousands of Monte Cassino Crosses? What about 14,000 plus PAF cap badges, what would the Polish state do with these? Sell them to Poles in Poland?

    What about the priceless collections in the Sikorski and at PUMST-SPP here in Great Britain should these be repatriated back to Poland even though they are both part of our Polish-British cultural heritage.

    I think the newly relaxed laws on exporting antiques makes it clear that the rarer and more valuable, culturally important antiques are still subject to strict export laws (as they should be) but allows for the more commonplace 'antiques' such as Cassino Crosses and the like to be freely exported as they should, IMO.
    Last edited by StefanM; 06-16-2011 at 05:09 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    I have nothing against past ... polish history was difficult. Same was the fate of fighting soldiers. As You know we never won WWII although we were first from allies to fight. In 1945 only occupant changed. That's why lots of soldiers stayed outside. Right now we have an independent state ... again. This what our grandfather fought for finaly exists. They fought for Honour and Homeland. They won their honour, but homeland was liberated in early 90's. For many it was way too late.

    When i'm thinking about present and future i'm just affraid that some of poor people can just start selling precious items only because of its value as a kind of replacement of regular job. As You all know there is still quite big difference in average year income between Poland and West mostly because of two world wars etc ... i just can't imagine situation when someone is selling f.e. forgotten regimental banner or parts of for example Łoś bomber just because someone from West is paying better price. I really love to see those precious stuff coming back ... from Russia, from Germany, West, States ... lots of Poles are trying to buing them back (me also) but this process is very slow. I have nothing against private collectors who were saving this for present times. On the other hand it looks weird when finaly Poland is free, indenpendent and precious relics from the past are available on the market like postcards or bread.

    I hope that change of law will not cause a massive export of this stuff to foreign lands. Pilsudski said: Motherland is the land and the graves. Nations losing memory are losing their life. That what collection polish militaria is for me, here in Poland. It all (i mean II RP) happend here. Not in Germany, Africa, Australia etc ... here is the place where the story began and ended. And here is the place where all of this items belonged to.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    Pat, without taking great issue with you on a number of points you raise.

    Isn't it a fact, that the entire Second Polish Corps and Polish Forces of the West did not campaign in Poland they campaigned outside of their homeland so this history belongs to Great Britain, Italy, North Africa, Norway, France, Holland, Belgium, Greece and Germany not Poland and the graves of these Poles lie in all of these countries, not Poland. The attached photo is at the Polish cemetery at Monte Cassino, Itlay and there are similar graves and memorials in all of the countries I have listed.

    I agree that those in the west have possibly more money than some collectors in Poland, but actually in my experience, having been collecting for a number of years now, the biggest contributing factor of the hugely increased prices for Polish militaria is precisely because there are now more Poles in Poland that can afford to collect Polish miltaria since the fall of communism and it is this influx of new collectors that have pushed up prices over recent years and have as a consequence caused the huge market in fake militaria.

    When I started 'collecting' most of the trade in Polish militaria was in items that were outside Poland already and there were very few collectors of Polish militaria and very few fakes. This changed dramatically in the 1990s.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by StefanM; 06-16-2011 at 05:07 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  7. #7
    ?

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    There is more Polish Militaria in Poland now than there has ever been !

    Interesting to note that the "New Money" in Poland is buying up more Polish Militaria from outside Poland !

    The interest by Polish collectors in Poland concerning Exile forces items has spiraled in the last few years, and I think you will find an awful lot of Polish Militaria from Polish Museums is finding it's way into private collectors hands via the "back door" as well !.

    Also remember "our" families were treated as traitors by Poland for 45 years, and all gave thanks to the host countries that supported them after WW2 ... so "our" families military heritage belongs as much to these countries as well.

    Gary J.
    Last edited by Gary J; 06-16-2011 at 04:03 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    I was thinking only about II Republic (1918-39), never mentioned about PSZ or other formation fighting all over the world. Some part of my relatives also stayed in UK, some emigrated to USA ... i'd love to had a chance to bring their stories and items to their home cities etc.

    I know exactly about our guys buying everything polish from West, cause like i said ... i'm trying to do the same since at least decade. Prices eleaveted to hell, same with black market of fakes ... hundreds of fake items appeared. On the other hand we have in Poland stories like this one with german Panther tank ... found in river in Pomerania ... and sold to Western collector. Finaly it went to States. Even National Geographic or Discovery Channel made a story about it. Of course it was german, so i don't care about it as much about polish stuff but this is a good example what money can do I'm sure that all of You would love to see a great museum in Warsaw full of Łoś bombers, 7TP tanks, Maroszek automatic rifles and many more stuff which is now spread all over the world - best example tankeetes in Moscow and Belgrad.

    I hope it's not offending anybody but i am really supporting the idea of keeping polish pre-war militaria in Poland. Open and available for anyone who want to take a look on them.

  9. #9
    ?

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    This is a hard topic to discuss. I was born and raised in the US and have been collecting IIRP militaria for the past 6 years. I moved to Poland a little over 2 years and brought my entire collection with me, all of which I purchased outside of Poland. This included everything from sabers, medals, badges, documents, etc... acquired in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and Germany. If I ever decide to leave Poland, should I be able to take my collection with me? If so, does this only mean the items I acquired outside of Poland?

    I agree that national treasures should stay in the country - Poland has been (for lack of a better term) raped enough. However, I am hard pressed to think a regimental badge here and a common medal there constitute national treasures. Some of the most patriotic Poles are actually not in Poland; they have a right too to own and collect Polish militaria.

    So the question is, how do we decide what is a treasure and isn't? If there is no clear definition, then perhaps everything should stay....

    P.S. Which museums are selling items? I'm happy to get my hands on a few of those pieces ;-)

  10. #10
    ?

    Default Re: Could anyone in Poland send on some small items of Polish Militaria for a reasonable price, which I will pay them for their postage and help,plea

    This is a hard topic to discuss. I was born and raised in the US and have been collecting IIRP militaria for the past 6 years. I moved to Poland a little over 2 years and brought my entire collection with me, all of which I purchased outside of Poland. This included everything from sabers, medals, badges, documents, etc... acquired in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and Germany. If I ever decide to leave Poland, should I be able to take my collection with me? If so, does this only mean the items I acquired outside of Poland?

    I agree that national treasures should stay in the country - Poland has been (for lack of a better term) raped enough. However, I am hard pressed to think a regimental badge here and a common medal there constitute national treasures. Some of the most patriotic Poles are actually not in Poland; they have a right too to own and collect Polish militaria.

    So the question is, how do we decide what is a treasure and isn't? If there is no clear definition, then perhaps everything should stay....

    P.S. Which museums are selling items? I'm happy to get my hands on a few of those pieces ;-)

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