Escaping Poland 1939: fake Polish passport ?

[huddyhuddy]

Hi,


I was hoping someone may have an idea about this item here.
I was told it was forged around 1939 to assist Polish soldiers fleeing Poland, and to escape to France. It was not used in the end but it came with the holders papers, attached as well.

Any ideas?

Tnx,
Neil

[StefanM]

Interesting story, I've not heard of forged passports being used by Polish forces to escape to France before? Would also like to learn more.

[Krakow1]

Ok, real quick.. The paper with picture on it is from Hungarian intenrment Camp for Polish soldiers. The Polish Consulate in Hungary did provide papers to the soldiers going to France. However many of them went across without any papers.
I cannot tell from pictures but the picture of the soldier should have been attached in the passport as the soldier would be given complete passport. The passport has Latvian Visa in it, also the crossing to Hungary stamp. This passport was "forged" by Polish Consulate.
Sikorski's tourist they were called by the germans.

[huddyhuddy]

Wow! real fascinating info! did not know this at all.
But why should a consulate forge a passport? could they not issue a real one they have already?
Again, thanks for the great information above!

- - Updated - -

The material inside the passport seems to be all 'printed' onto the pages...not actual rubber stamps, as if copied and pronted from an origianl passport they found with actual visas inside...

[Krakow1]

To best answer that we have to go back 70 plus years. Hungary in 1939 was on the fence, in the beginning still friendly to Poland however there was a lot of pressure from Germany to hold the Poles in the camps so when Germans came they would take care of them. There were no copy machines then so that passport was printed most likely in large numbers to have the names filled in later. Yes the Consulate could issue a passport but it would be a new one without entry stamp in to Hungary and looking totally bogus, and so many young Poles with brand new passports trying to cross Hungary..... also these guys escaped from the camps. So they had to make it at least semi real, and some of the Hungarian Police being at that time mostly friendly to Poles would let that slide.

[StefanM]

Or it could be a fake "fake" passport of modern printing...?

If every passport the various border guards looked at had identical visa stamps I think they might think it suspicious... no???

[Krakow1]

To best answer that: one would have to examin this particular passport for signs of modern copying... with magnigying glass.. how did huddybuddy buy this grouping, or where? and how expensive it was? if bought on allegro than yes most likely the passport is bogus. However the Hungarian Camp id looks good. Thinking 2012 reality will not work for 1939 reality. These papers were not used in the end. Many soldiers would use these or similar kind of papers in case they were stopped by some village police, it was better than nothing and it would pass a cursory exam by some village police, they would not use these to cross the border. Remember that in early 1939 Hungarian people were generally friendly to Poles so they would let something ike that slide. Also useing black light would tell if the paper on the passport is modern, glows.

[dastier]

I have a question about the three date stamps on pages 14, 15 and 17. I assume that they are Latvian as 'Iebraucis' and 'Izbraucis' are Latvian for entering and leaving [the country]. It seems Dec, Jan and Feb are used to abbreviate the months December, January and February.

How do you say those months in Latvian? I don't speak Latvian but those look to be English abbreviations, or is that how Latvians also abbreviated those months? Would that be correct for Latvian visa stamps in that time period?

[StefanM]

The English date format is an interesting point. The international language of the day I thought was French rather than English as it is these days. Anyone have another Polish passport of the period to post alongside for comparison.


6 hours later......

English date format may be correct as I found a couple of other period Latvian documents using similar English date format:

[huddyhuddy]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the info and advise.
The paper is made to look like the thick original paper used in the old passports. From what I managed to find out in the mean time, lithograph or letterpress could be used back then, also in color. It does look that the vias where copied or photographed from original used passports, then applied to this one here, as suggested above, maybe printed in large quantities...

I added a better resolution scan...woumaybe it can help...

Rgrds,
Neil