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Named Krechowiecki Saber

Article about: That is a really nice rig.

  1. #11
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    That is a really nice rig.

  2. #12

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    Whatever you say. Please note that most of Polish officers were educated in non-polish schools and spelling of lastnames varied from area to area depending on the partition. LWP was much more professional and better educated army than 1930's WP. Literacy levels in IIRP were not that high because of the partitions and non existance of polish education in some areas prior to 1920s.

  3. #13

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    Yes, considering he only misspelled his last name not anything on the inscription he was doing pretty good.
    NIE ZAPOMNIJMY O KRESACH.

  4. #14

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    He didnt mispell it but used more polish sounding version.

    Link that might be of interest - Historia ortografii polskiej
    Last edited by meyle77; 01-08-2014 at 02:20 AM.

  5. #15
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    To me, it looks convincingly believable. Why go through creating and aging a plate (even with miniature VM) just to screw up the wording? Does the plate bump up the value that much?

    However, it is curious the auction was pulled...

  6. #16
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    It is me, or is that "Sam Browne" a British issue item ?

  7. #17

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    Just "adding some fuel to the fire" - one cannot exclude situation that the engraver, maker of the inscription had make an ordinary mistake, and after attaching the plate to the saber it was hardy possible to improve this…

    As regards quotation “LWP was much more professional and better educated army than 1930's WP. Literacy levels in IIRP were not that high because of the partitions and non existance of polish education in some areas prior to 1920s”, I cannot agree, generally.
    Lever of education and professionalism in LWP increased after 1956. But before that year, the common was saying “Nie matura lecz chęć szczera zrobi z ciebie oficera” – what says in English “No matter your education, it is your willingness that create you as an officer”. Unfortunately, it was in line with ideology and national policy – power had to be given to people, workers and peasants. And as meyle77 has wrote, level of mass education before 1939 was not high. Popular was situation of graduating just a few classes of primary school, but despite that many of people couldn’t read or write (dysfunctional possessed knowledge).
    Diffrent situation is when we talk about officers of the Polish pre-war Army - their education and professionalism was much more higher comparing to status of Peoples Army in ’40 or ’50.
    Even in 1918-1920 staff of the Army consisted of well educated and prepared former officers of German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian Army, Legions of Pilsudski, Haller’s Army and so on.
    And definitively they could spell and write their names.

    Anyway, coming back to the saber – no one can be sure of its originality, if no original papers are attached or credible, well documented history relates to that…

  8. #18

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    Quote by Gary J View Post
    It is me, or is that "Sam Browne" a British issue item ?
    Hi Gary, a belt type also used extensively in the Polish 2nd Republic armed forces.

    Cheers,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  9. #19

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    Quote by Tomasz70 View Post
    Just "adding some fuel to the fire" - one cannot exclude situation that the engraver, maker of the inscription had make an ordinary mistake, and after attaching the plate to the saber it was hardy possible to improve this…

    As regards quotation “LWP was much more professional and better educated army than 1930's WP. Literacy levels in IIRP were not that high because of the partitions and non existance of polish education in some areas prior to 1920s”, I cannot agree, generally.
    Lever of education and professionalism in LWP increased after 1956. But before that year, the common was saying “Nie matura lecz chęć szczera zrobi z ciebie oficera” – what says in English “No matter your education, it is your willingness that create you as an officer”. Unfortunately, it was in line with ideology and national policy – power had to be given to people, workers and peasants. And as meyle77 has wrote, level of mass education before 1939 was not high. Popular was situation of graduating just a few classes of primary school, but despite that many of people couldn’t read or write (dysfunctional possessed knowledge).
    Diffrent situation is when we talk about officers of the Polish pre-war Army - their education and professionalism was much more higher comparing to status of Peoples Army in ’40 or ’50.
    Even in 1918-1920 staff of the Army consisted of well educated and prepared former officers of German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian Army, Legions of Pilsudski, Haller’s Army and so on.
    And definitively they could spell and write their names.

    Anyway, coming back to the saber – no one can be sure of its originality, if no original papers are attached or credible, well documented history relates to that…
    True, that many early LWP officers were of field type promotion (incl. partisans) or were simply promoted for being from the working class. But, also many were IIRP educated officers that ended up in LWP - not all ended in PSZ.
    As, I said Polish officer cadre of 1920s were still educated by the former occupiers.
    Looking for following WWII German items:
    - anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
    - entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
    - forestry and hunting items,

    Polish Militaria 1914-1945 - https://www.facebook.com/groups/124584324789966/
    GTA Militaria - Discussions and Sales - https://www.facebook.com/groups/890720157646923/

  10. #20

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    Here are the things that historically make no sense:

    Major Podhorski did not take over as a commander of the Krechowiecki Regiment until 9 September 1920, well after the Battle of Warsaw. During Battle of Warsaw he commanded 203rd Reserve Ulan Regiment.
    This very brave officer, wounded twice in 1915 in a battle of Krzywoluka, awarded St Georges Officers Cross for the charge by Krechowce is impressed by a Lieutenant so much that he decides to not only award this officer a Virtuti Militari, but to also in addition give a saber to him..... Why ? what would impress Zaza so much ? And if it did it would be noted in some books. Especially ones about Krechowiecki Ulans.
    And yes one needs to exclude the situation that engraver made a mistake, not possible. Yes in todays Poland if you ask 10 people how to spell Podhorski they will invariably spell it Podchorski. Before the war the Podhorce castle (on the list of the 100 most endangered objects) was known to all people. However not now.
    So yes the spelling mistake was new.......
    NIE ZAPOMNIJMY O KRESACH.

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