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Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

Article about: Hereís a very interesting Vis rig that was up for sale earlier this year. Fascinating provenance. Enjoy . . . Tony

  1. #31

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Quote by pat15567 View Post
    I'm very careful with searching for my holster. As You know combination of rarity + good price means that there is a lot of fakes/copies. Internet and small photos on the auctions strongly enhance the risk of mistakes or wrong assessment. I prefer to take a look with my own eyes, take it in my hands and inspect carefully. Some day my holster will come ...
    I'm sure it will!

    As you well know, an important characteristic to look for (that the fakes I have seen thus far have not replicated) are the contact marks between the leather and the metal items they hold: the pistol and magazines. They are an immediate giveaway as to the authenticity of the holster. This topic is covered on an earlier thread. Here are the pics (of my holster) posted again.

    Regards,
    Tony
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  2. #32

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Of course those marks increase the level of possible authenticity but let's not be naive - if one is paying huuuge amount of money for such an item there will always find a guy who's got enough skills to prepare the appropriate state of material fatigue

  3. #33

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Yes, of course Pat. But don't miss my point. I have seen some excellent copies that have fooled those that should have known better. Everything about the holsters looked perfect - except the presence of these apparently easily overlooked telltale contact marks. But as you say, the crafty counterfeiters will refine their products.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  4. #34

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Another woring think is that in Poland since around decade reenactment is very popular and some good replicas after such time of usage "in field" with proper conservation etc. are looking very very authentic. For example i'm using as my NCO's silhuette's pistol Luger P-08 and the holset after few years looks so real that on every event i got questions from the public or other reenactors why i am using original. The same way it goes with Vis holsters. You only need a good copy and time of reenactment usage and proper conservation and after 7-10 years a copy looks like really nice example from period. Sad but true ... for me after all those years the main sign of authenticity is a source of the item and secondary inspection of details ... But your A.J. looks perfect ! Btw. happy New Year guys ! All the best !

  5. #35

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Vis 35 and prewar holster for sale in the USA.

    Its expensive - $5250 USD but might not be unreasonable considering the pistol's condition, a supposedly authentic prewar holster, and what I have seen German capture Vis 35s (p-35s) going for in Canada lately ($850-$1850 CDN). I don't believe its matching - the seller does not mention matching numbers, which is what I would expect if it was so, and from the photos (its hard to tell) I think the slide does not match the frame.

    Comments?
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    Last edited by dastier; 03-26-2012 at 08:46 PM.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Hi Mike,

    The pictures give the pistol the appearance of having been refinished. It may just be the lighting, although Iíd want to verify this. As you know, the condition of the original high quality rust-blue finish applied to these pre-war Visís really affects value.

    What does the sellerís description state?

    I have to say that the spider senses are tingling with that holster. The lack of any visible contact marks on the inside of the flap is troubling.

    Also, the cleaning rod is not original.

    Regards,
    T.
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  7. #37

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Hi Mike,

    The pictures give the pistol the appearance of having been refinished. It may just be the lighting, although Iíd want to verify this. As you know, the condition of the original high quality rust-blue finish applied to these pre-war Visís really affects value.

    What does the sellerís description state?
    Unfortunately the seller's web site does not say anything other than it is is 'fine' condition with no mention of matching numbers - I tried enhancing the pics after downloading them to better read the serial numbers but it didn't help. I don't think they match - possible 13387, 13587, 15387 or 15587 on the slide and 15170 or 15179 on the frame. Are the magazines stamped to the firearm and if so where?

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    I have to say that the spider senses are tingling with that holster. The lack of any visible contact marks on the inside of the flap is troubling.

    Also, the cleaning rod is not original.

    Regards,
    T.
    Thanks Tony

    If the holster is a copy would you say it was a good one and what do you think might be a fair asking price? Maybe I can pry just the holster from the seller if I can convince its a copy.

    In any case the Vis 35 is too rich for my blood. I posted it in case someone here was looking for a Polish stamped one. I would expect prospective buyers to do their homework before committing to purchase.

    PS How are Vis prices out in your area. The p-35 offered at the surplus sale here went for $850 CDN which is high compare to a year ago but I see two p-35s listed for $1850 CDN at a Canadian dealer in Ontario. Sometimes you still find them in the $400-500 range but unless you are buying for an investment I find this trend troubling.

    I recently purchased a prohibited CZ vz. 24 for my 10th BK display from the aforementioned surplus sale. Was able to get a good price on it ($100 less than the asking price) and the deactivation ($50). Now looking for a holster - have found one but its as much as the pistol!

    Mike
    Last edited by dastier; 03-26-2012 at 09:50 PM.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Hi Mike,

    First off, good to hear that your display is steadily coming along. Be sure to post pics when done.

    The pre-war mags are not serial numbered.

    The holster is a good copy if indeed it is a repro as I suspect, although the leather appears very dark as though it has been oiled. Youíre better off buying one of the reproductions with the correct leather finish being sold on the internet. I spotted one listed on ebay several days back. You might want to dry finding that auction.

    As far as your question about how Vis prices are in my area . . . what Visís in my area??

    They are seldom seen out here. Iím a long time member of our local Historic Arms club that puts on the gun shows out here, and over the years Iíve seen maybe three occupation era P35ís out for sale. Definitely no pre-war eagles. The last P35 was about three years back. It was a rather worn re-blued early occupation one with the take down lever, and IIRC priced at about $700. I only saw it once, so presumably it sold.

    Iíve noticed that prices have spiked up on the pistols along with parts since the release of the recent book devoted to these guns. The long overlooked Vis is getting some well-deserved exposure, although this is not always a good thing for those in the market.

    Regards,
    T.
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  9. #39
    ?

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Excellent pics and stories.
    The VIS/'Radom' is by far my favourite WWII handgun.
    An elegant sturdy handgun with all the best features, that John Moses could think of and none of the not-so-great details from for example the 1911.
    I have several holsters for it, but they are Wehrmacht made and not at all like the 'original' Polish handgun holsters.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Original Pre-war Vis Holster with Vis Pistol

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Hi Mike,

    First off, good to hear that your display is steadily coming along. Be sure to post pics when done.
    Thanks, will do. In fact I'll post about my recent purchase in the prewar holsters thread I started as it is referenced there.

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    The pre-war mags are not serial numbered.
    Good to know.

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    The holster is a good copy if indeed it is a repro as I suspect, although the leather appears very dark as though it has been oiled. Youíre better off buying one of the reproductions with the correct leather finish being sold on the internet. I spotted one listed on ebay several days back. You might want to dry finding that auction.
    Thanks for the heads up. The seller probably doesn't want to separate the pair.

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    As far as your question about how Vis prices are in my area . . . what Visís in my area??

    They are seldom seen out here. Iím a long time member of our local Historic Arms club that puts on the gun shows out here, and over the years Iíve seen maybe three occupation era P35ís out for sale. Definitely no pre-war eagles. The last P35 was about three years back. It was a rather worn re-blued early occupation one with the take down lever, and IIRC priced at about $700. I only saw it once, so presumably it sold.

    Iíve noticed that prices have spiked up on the pistols along with parts since the release of the recent book devoted to these guns. The long overlooked Vis is getting some well-deserved exposure, although this is not always a good thing for those in the market.

    Regards,
    T.
    Well I expected that - you did predict that with the release of York's new book on the Radom Vis 35 prices would go up. I suppose that if buying milsurps as an investment that is a good thing but I find that it makes for a a rich person's club and can dampen enthusiasm for collecting and military history, not to mention encouraging fakes. (as in badges, uniforms etc.) Being more of a milsurp firearms collector I keep an watch on gun prices and trends.

    We all know the Vis 35 is worth more with its original Polish stamps in contrast to the P-35 pistols. And the Vis 35 is easier to own in Canada than say a Luger P-08 being classified as restricted instead of prohibited. That makes them more desirable to shooters and pushes the prices upwards. But 4 years ago I bought my very good condition Type II P-35 for $425 and average prices for good to very good condition P-35s were in the $450 to $600 range over the past two years. I think this is outrageous for a pistol which 12-18 months ago sold for as little as $400 CDN (Marstar in Canada) is now selling as high as $1850 CDN (2 listed at Collector's Source in Canada and I believe a dewat for $650). One P-35 sold here for $850 last month and was listed in good condition. Perhaps prices are going up because of new found enthusiasm for the Vis but what about speculation and greed. This will probably make them even harder to find as investors sit on them. How much will Polish stamped ones go for? Will they be priced as high as matching Mauser C96s? Or more?

    Here's an example - two years ago a local dealer brought in a number of dewat Sten and Bren guns. Stens were selling for $325-$350. The Brens for $600-$850. I was buying a Polish wz 29 mauser so I didn't have a lot of spare cash to spend so I bought a Sten. Wish I had bought a Bren instead. You can still find dewat Stens for about $350-$400 from time to time, maybe a bit more. But dewat Brens are priced at $1400-$2000+ (and not selling). One of the purchaser of a $600 Bren turned around and listed it at $1875. That's 3x what he paid for it. It and the others are probably not selling because most don't want a non functioning gun for that price except those with deep pockets. I'm not sure if this is a good thing.
    Last edited by dastier; 03-27-2012 at 02:06 AM.

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