Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

[Visniewski]

Welcome all, this is my first post here, so please forgive me if I fail.

Actually this Browning wz.30 with a gas bottle is one fitted with a pneumatic insert, shooting BB pellets at reduced targets for machine gunner training and practice. These were based on a design by Karol Maciejewski, who has secured a Polish patent Nr. 19881 dated March 22, 1934. Similar kits were also used for ckm wz.08 (ex-German Maxim MG 08), lkm wz.08/15 (likewise, ex-German MG 08/15) and air force Browning machine guns (of course for ground-based marksmanship training, not for dogfighting :-)

To insert one, the machine gun had to stripped like for barrel exchange (which meant really thoroughly - a quick-change barrel was alien idea at that time. One had to remove rear plate of the receiver, locks, bolt, barrel) - essentially all that left was an empty hull on tripod. Then you inserted the pellet kit, consisting of:
smoothbore barrel, inner dia. 5,75 mm
valve chamber
drum magazine for 500 pellets
reduction valve with security override and gauges
air hose
two steel compressed air flasks
At 1.46 MPa pressure and barrel elevation of up to 40 degrees, the BBs were thrown out to 300 meters! And fully automatically at that, as the needle valve controlled the air flow, rotation of the drum magazine, and pellet supply.
In 1934 the insert passed the military testing, and as of 1937 production started, with first units to reach units in 1937/38 - one pneumatic kit per machine gun company, first in the infantry, then as of May 1938 in the cavalry and artillery units. On April 19, 1938 provisional "Pellet Insert Machine Gun Marksmanship Training Program" was issued, together with a request for feasibility report on the device, to be returned at the latest by December 1, 1940. It is thus safe to assume, that the order hasn't been implemented to the full extent...

[dastier]

Welcome all, this is my first post here, so please forgive me if I fail.

Actually this Browning wz.30 with a gas bottle is one fitted with a pneumatic insert, shooting BB pellets at reduced targets for machine gunner training and practice. These were based on a design by Karol Maciejewski, who has secured a Polish patent Nr. 19881 dated March 22, 1934. Similar kits were also used for ckm wz.08 (ex-German Maxim MG 08), lkm wz.08/15 (likewise, ex-German MG 08/15) and air force Browning machine guns (of course for ground-based marksmanship training, not for dogfighting :-)

To insert one, the machine gun had to stripped like for barrel exchange (which meant really thoroughly - a quick-change barrel was alien idea at that time. One had to remove rear plate of the receiver, locks, bolt, barrel) - essentially all that left was an empty hull on tripod. Then you inserted the pellet kit, consisting of:
smoothbore barrel, inner dia. 5,75 mm
valve chamber
drum magazine for 500 pellets
reduction valve with security override and gauges
air hose
two steel compressed air flasks
At 1.46 MPa pressure and barrel elevation of up to 40 degrees, the BBs were thrown out to 300 meters! And fully automatically at that, as the needle valve controlled the air flow, rotation of the drum magazine, and pellet supply.
In 1934 the insert passed the military testing, and as of 1937 production started, with first units to reach units in 1937/38 - one pneumatic kit per machine gun company, first in the infantry, then as of May 1938 in the cavalry and artillery units. On April 19, 1938 provisional "Pellet Insert Machine Gun Marksmanship Training Program" was issued, together with a request for feasibility report on the device, to be returned at the latest by December 1, 1940. It is thus safe to assume, that the order hasn't been implemented to the full extent...

Welcome to War Relics and to the Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siły Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939 forum Visniewski.

Thank you for your great post clearing up the mystery of the gas bottle attached to the ckm wz.30. I had never heard of this before.

Attachment 484130

Please continue to contribute, and please visit the other Polish forums here on War Relics. (or any of the War Relic forums - they all have great posts! )

Mike

[ChrisW01]

Hey Visniewski

Welcome to the forums and thanks for explaining the gas cylinder's use in the picture. Please feel free to post more information and tell us where your interests lie. What is your source for the gas cylinder adaptation to the Browning wz.30?

Chris.......

[Scout]

Welcome to the forum. Great info.

[Walther38]

Here are drawings of symbols found on the stock of the wz.29 rifle. I will post the meaning of them later.

Attachment 348868

Attachment 348867

Attachment 348866

Attachment 348869

Such symbols can be found in several sizes and in two places; the bottom of the wrist (x2) and the right side of the stock near the bolt take down disc.

They are also can be found on Vis pistol. Some of them were deciffered in York's book.

[Walther38]

pneumatic kit per machine gun company

As an addition to this post
An origianal patent copies.

[Piwo2]

Here are few Polish Mauser's I have collected over the years.

2-scrubbed K98
2- K98
K98 with wz.29 stock
K-29
wz.29
2- wz.98a

[Piwo2]

Here are few Polish Mauser's I have collected over the years.

2-scrubbed K98
2- K98
K98 with wz.29 stock
K-29
wz.29
2- wz.98a

Piwo

[Piwo2]

I recently purchased this m6 French berhtier rifle. Afer a thorough cleaning I observed these proof marks on the receiver and barrel. From what I have read online it appears as if this might be a Polish re-issue rifle. I look forward to comments and input.
Pozdrawiam,
Piwo

[Piwo2]

Ok, so I organized them a bit better.