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Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

Article about: by stoggie I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector

  1. #11

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Mike, very interesting information and well presented.

    Cheers,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  2. #12

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Thanks Tony, now its time for you to post about the Radom Vis 35 with your beautiful prewar pistol and authentic issue holster....

    But I must get back to the hockey playoffs!

  3. #13

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    As a side to this topic what would have been a common rifle used by support units such as - telegraph battalions -that supported communications for Polish army groups like Karpaty & Lodz?

    Chris.....

  4. #14

    Default Common rifle used by support units such as telegraph battalions of army groups

    I'm not an expert on Polish rifles nor the organization and equipment of the Wojsko Polskie so I cannot answer your question. That's part of the reason for this sticky - so we can share info and make it readily accessible.

    Would someone please respond to Chris's question. Thanks.
    Last edited by dastier; 05-26-2012 at 04:21 AM.

  5. #15

    Default Ng 30 revolver close up photos

    Here are some close up photos of a Ng 30 revolver:

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    And here are three purported Ng 30 cleaning rods:

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  6. #16

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    I'll take some time to share some of my Poles. Here is my Ng.30. Unfortunately it has a mismatched cylinder and cylinder pin from a Tula made Nagant, but I do have some original ammo and holster to show with it. Here is some info on it: FB Radom Handguns - FB Radom Handguns, (the first paragraph dealing with the Ng.30)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by stoggie; 05-26-2012 at 07:44 AM.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Here are pics of my VIS wz.35. It was likely assembled hastily during the Blitzkrieg in Sept '39 based on the serial number. The frame and slide match but the barrel does not. You will note that there are no Polish Eagle firing proofs on the barrel or slide, and the trigger guard is missing the Oval D/2 or B/8 inspection proof. The lanyard loop is not characteristic so it may have been added after the pistol was assembled.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    The Radom is truly a beautiful sidearms and in my opinion not only good looking, but also technically one of the best (if not the best) handgun from the WWII era.
    Ergonomics are also top notch in my book.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Welcome to the forum stoggie and thanks for your posts. Super pieces. Your Vis is a classic "wrzesniowy". Beautiful pistol. And most interesting example with silde and frame being numbers matched. Can't recall ever seeing a late production mismatched Vis with these two parts matching. Thanks again for sharing these pics.

    Cheers,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  10. #20

    Default Automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28 (Polish contract vz.24 pistol)

    Origins of the Czech vz.24 pistol:

    The vz.24 pistol was based on the designs of Josef Nickl, who had been employed by Waffenfabrik Mauser and who had designed the 'Nickl-Pistole' in 9mm Parabellum caliber in 1916 (for which a locked breech was necessary). After WW1 Nickl was sent to Czechoslovakia to assist in setting up rifle manufacturing and while there, interested the Czechs in his pistol. The Czechs adopted it as the vz.22 but in 9x17mm Short. Therefore in spite of using a low-powered cartridge, the vz.22 uses a locked breech dependent upon the rotation of the barrel for locking and unlocking.

    The design was initially put into production by CZ Brno as the CZ vz.22 pistol but production was moved to CZ Strakonice in 1923. Strakonice later modified the design with help from Skoda Works as the vz.24 - simplified with some stamped parts to make production easier.

    "Two-hundred pre-production pistols were delivered to the Czech Armament Commission for testing in May of 1925.... The Commission approved the design by August of 1925, and the redesigned gun was designated the vz.24...

    The first government order for 20,000 vz.24 pistols was completed in June of 1926...

    100,000 pistols had been delivered to fulfill additional government contracts...[but] not delivered until 1931...

    An additional 1400 were made in 1935, and 70,000 were made between 1936 and 1938 to fulfill later government contracts...

    Approximately 1700 were sold to Poland, and another few hundred to Lithuania."

    The vz.24 remained a locked breech which is stronger than needed for 9x17mm Browning Short. It was the issue pistol of the prewar Czech military until scheduled for replacement by the vz.38.

    Polish government and military contracts:

    From William York's new book on the Radom VIS 35, he states that the Polish Ministry of the Treasury purchased 1700 vz.24 pistols from Ceska Zbrojovka in 1929-30. York goes on to state that Polish military authorities considered producing a modified version of the vz.24 pistol, which due to the high cost of the license was abandoned. This is described as the CZ vz.28. The decision to not license the modified vz.24 lead to the design and production of the Radom VIS wz.35.

    A Czech web sites reports that Ceska Zbrojovka was desperate for sales:

    "Since starting production of the vz 24, the company had tried to promote sales outside of Czechoslovakia. They were encouraged by the Military who wanted foreign sales to help defray their investment, and reduce the cost of future purchases. If necessary, the Military would even allow allocation of pistols from their orders, to fill potential foreign sales."

    "The end of the Czechoslovak Government orders gave additional impetus to selling the vz 24 elsewhere. Unfortunately, market conditions were in a decline. The world was in the throes of a Great Depression and the Ceska Zbrojovka was a small company trying to compete with the world's largest armament cartels. Also the small caliber of the vz 24 [9x17mm Short] could not compete with the larger calibers that were becoming the vogue in Military circles."

    The only foreign contracts for the vz.24 pistol that I've been able to find are the sales to Poland, Lithuania and a reported sale to Rumania. (Carbines for Collectors web site)

    Another Czech web site indicates that the Poles had initially approached Ceska Zbrojovka about the possibility of designing and producing a reliable modern military revolver. CZ indicated that this would not be economically feasible and suggested a modification of its vz.24 using what was described as a 'revolver trigger'. This appears to be a DAO trigger. This web site further states that 2,500+ Pistole vz.28 were eventually exported to Poland, "but the available data can not reliably determine whether they were all equipped with trigger mechanism described. The same model designation was used for the export model Pistole vz.28, equipped with an extended pistol grip and attachable wooden stock but with a normal single action trigger."

    A third Czech web site states that the Poles did indeed purchased the vz.28 with a increased magazine capacity (nine rounds instead of eight) new Bakelite grips (reportedly with the Polish national Eagle embossed) and some pistols slotted for a shoulder stock. This web site gives the following production figures:

    "Poland ordered pistole vz.28 in three parts: 730 pistols (230 with shoulder stock) and 20,000 rounds of ammunition ordered and delivered in 1929; 1000 pistols and 5000 rounds of ammunition in 1930; and finally, in March 1931, the last shipment of 800 weapons and 55,000 rounds of ammunition - a total of 2,530 pistole vz.28 [Polish automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28] and 80,000 rounds of [vz.22] ammunition."

    So it would appear that Poland purchased 1,700 Ceska Zbrojovka vz.24 pistols for the Ministry of the Treasury then a further 2,530 vz.28 (automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28) for the Polish military prior to WW2.

    (Information obtained from Czech web sites, translated and paraphrased.)

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    Ceska Zbrojovka vz.24, pre war Czech military pistol (1,700 purchased by the Polish Ministry of the Treasury)

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    Polish automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28

    2,500+ sold to the Polish military including 230 with attachment for a shoulder stock; nine round magazine, extended Bakelite grips with Polish Eagle embossed. Image courtesy of Pat15567

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    Ceska Zbrojovka vz.28 export model: single action trigger and shoulder stock

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    Ceska Zbrojovka vz.28 DAO trigger

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    DAO trigger mechanism (the latter CZ vz.38 pistol featured a DAO trigger mechanism)

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    Czech vz.22 9x17mm left, 9x19mm Parabellum (Luger) right

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    vz.22 headstamp

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    vz.24 holster left vz.38 holster right
    Last edited by dastier; 05-27-2012 at 07:46 PM.

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