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Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

Article about: by stoggie I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector

  1. #21

    Default Ceska Zbrojovka vz.24 pistol and holster

    A note on the inclusion of a Czech pistol in a 'sticky' on Polish firearms.

    While at first blush one may question the inclusion of the Czech vz.24 in this 'sticky', imho it is appropriate. Firstly, as previously stated, Czech web sites report that the Polish Military purchased 2500+ modified vz.24 pistols. Secondly, both Radom VIS author William York and the web sites state that the Poles had considered manufacturing the modified vz.24 under license. And thirdly, as mentioned in the thread Can you identify these holsters used by prewar Polish Officers prewar Polish officers were allowed private purchases sidearms and the export version of the vz.24 pistol (vz.28) was one that some Polish officers chose.

    In addition...

    While a drawing of the Polish Automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28 pistol was provided to me, I have not been able to find any photos of one (if anyone does have such please post them in this sticky). Its possible that the only noticeable differences lie in the embossed grips and higher capacity magazine of the Polish wz.28 pistol.

    (apparently there is a reference to the Polish pattern "CZ wz.28" in a book by A. Konstankiewicz - does anyone have this book and would they paraphase what he says.)

    Here is my Czech military issue vz.24 pistol and issue holster for perusal. Neither have any Nazi markings or waffenamts. The serial number dates its manufacture to 1936.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The finish is blued and is worn in places. (looks shiny due to flash).

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    Machined as opposed to stamped safety release and take down lever. No unit marks on the grip of my vz.24.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    CESKA ZBROJOVKA A.S. v PRAZE. serial # and Lion of Bohemia mark.

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    Hammer cocked showing back of firing pin.

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    Machined lanyard loop, unmarked base plate.

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    The Lion of Bohemia is the Czech Military property symbol and the '37' is the year the pistol was accepted into military service. If anyone knows what the 'J' in the 'J (lion) 37' stamp represents please comment.

    So far I have had one reply on the American Gunboards site that suggests that the 'J' might signify the pistol department at the VTLU (Vojenský technický a letecký ústav - Military and Aviation Technical Institute) where the pistol was accepted, since vz.24 rifles and vz.33 carbines are stamped E (lion) and the year.

    CZ in circle is a commercial logo of Ceska Zbrojovka. The CZ emblem on the rubber grips could be either blank, the circled CZ without a dot as shown, or one with a dot.

    Original issue Czech holster

    I was very fortunate to find an original Czech issue holster.

    For an eighty-six year old holster it is in very good condition. Leather is a bit dry but no cracks. It has several faded ink stamps on the inside flap:

    Lion of Bohemia which is the Czech Military property stamp.
    Date stamp:1926.
    Possible manufacturer's stamp(s).

    '5A' is embossed in the upper left corner. 5th Army or 5th Military District...?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    The pistol is a little snug in the holster which will require some work to restore its suppleness.
    Last edited by dastier; 05-27-2012 at 07:36 PM.

  2. #22
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    A very nice little gun and excellent pics.
    (my favourite vintage CZ is the CZ-27, but that is of course beyond the scope of this thread)

  3. #23

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Quote by Scout View Post
    A very nice little gun and excellent pics.
    (my favourite vintage CZ is the CZ-27, but that is of course beyond the scope of this thread)
    Hi Scout. Thank you for the compliment. Yes the Czech vz.27 would not fit the parameters of this 'sticky'. However from the holster identification thread Can you identify these holsters used by prewar Polish Officers the following pistols were purchased privately by Polish officers:

    Most popular were:

    1) 9mm
    - Browning wz.03
    - Browning FN wz.22
    - Browning FN wz.30
    - Browning FN wz.35
    - CZ wz.28

    2) 7,65-7,63mm
    - Cebra wz.16 (French)
    - Frommer wz.11 (Austro-Hungarian)
    - Mauser wz.10 (both 7,65 and 6,35)


    Anyone interested in posting about these sidearms as used by Polish officers?

  4. #24
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Very interesting. You have done your homework!
    Polish arms are underrated considering the quality.
    Also interesting to note the foreign handguns listed.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Thanks Scout but I can't take all the credit. The list and the drawing of the Polish Automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28 pistol were provided to me by Pat15567. Hopefully Pat and others with Polish milsurp collections will post here too.

    I will post my German captured wz.29 once I have better photos. Ditto Stoggie with some of his fine collection. I will also post information and photos on Polish weapons that I don't own. But this sticky is intended to be a collaborative effort.

    Anyone can post. And it doesn't have to be firearms. Ammo pouches, holsters, hand grenades... ...personal to medium and large crew served weapons.

    Regarding the list of foreign pistols... well given that Poland was partitioned between Imperial Germany, Russia and Austria-Hungary its not surprising to find pistols from those empires both in the inventory of the Wojsko Polskie and privately purchased by Polish officers.

    As for the Browning pistols: Fabrique Nationale was (and remains) a well respected firearms manufacturer in Europe with agents marketing its products in many countries. With respect for the Cebra, I suspect Poles that fought on the Western Front in WW1 or with close ties to France may have preferred these.

  6. #26
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Yes, the GP 35 is hard to beat.

  7. #27

    Default WZ.29 inspection marks

    Here are photos of inspection marks found on bolt handles of two Polish bolts. The photo of the first bolt is from a wz.29 rifle exported to the Republican government during the Spanish Civil War, the next two are from a Polish wz.29 rifle captured by the Germans.

    All marks are on the underside of the bolt handle.

    What's interesting is that on the SCW rifle, all Polish stamps and marks were scrubbed as per Polish government policy except this obvious Polish eagle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    On this bolt what is interesting is that the 'clover leaf' symbol on the bolt cocking piece has been attributed to both the Germans and the French on the American Gunboards site. One respondent remarked that the clover leaf symbol "appears once in a while on WWI era German parts". Another member states that the symbol in question "was identified on another forum as a French clover leaf/bunch of grapes, when France took over the Mauser production at the war's end".

    Click image for larger version. 

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    These have been identified as various Polish inspection marks. Comments or additional information anyone?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by dastier; 06-02-2012 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Fixed photos.

  8. #28

    Default Re: WZ.29 inspection marks

    Would anyone care to comment on these inspection marks?

    http://i.imgur.com/yuWVP.jpg[/QUOTE]

    They appear to be Chinese characters.
    Chris......

  9. #29
    ?

    Default Re: WZ.29 inspection marks

    Quote by dastier View Post
    Here are photos of inspection marks found on the handle base of two Polish bolts. One bolt is from a wz.29 rifle exported to the Republican government during the Spanish Civil War, the other from a Polish wz.29 rifle captured by the Germans.

    What's interesting is that on the SCW rifle, all Polish stamps and marks were scrubbed as per Polish government policy except this obvious Polish eagle.

    http://i.imgur.com/EKnvi.jpg
    Ahh, the elusive Polish prototype rifle for left-handed shooters!

  10. #30

    Default Re: WZ.29 inspection marks

    Quote by ChrisW01 View Post
    Would anyone care to comment on these inspection marks?

    http://i.imgur.com/yuWVP.jpg

    They appear to be Chinese characters.
    Chris......
    Well they may look Chinese but they are Polish. They have been identified as inspection marks but nothing more is know about as yet.

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