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Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

Article about: by stoggie I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector

  1. #61

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Beautiful Kbk wz.98. You have a 1928 P.F.K Warsawa and I have a 1927 P.W.B Radom. I wonder if there were any noticeable differences in how the two factories made them?

    Post #5 if you want to take a look...

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Do you know what the shield with the eagle and the letter 'K' represents?

  2. #62

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    And a wz.29

    After looking at the kbk wz.98, one can see more similarities in the wz.29 than with any other mauser. Simply put, the changes were the front band and it was placed further back (omitting the stacking hook in favor of a cleaning rod), the receiver ring is larger, rear sling swivel was moved back, rear band was redesigned and moved back, and a bolt takedown hole added. This became the standard service rifle for the Poles. Sources quote the bent bolt handle being for Cavalry units, and the straight bolt for the Infantry.

    Below are pics, please note the cleaning rod is not original. The was a WWII bringback with the addition of the officer's name who brought it back (presumably). The stock has been lightly sanded, but other than that, it is all matching and original. It is interesting to note this rifle was not overhauled by the Germans during WWII, but seeing as how a US officer liberated it from a German, goes to show that the Germans did not overhaul every wz.29. I will go into detail in my next post.



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  3. #63

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Very nice rifle, and excellent pics. Thanks for the post stoggie

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  4. #64

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    This wz.29 one would call the Infantry version with the straight bolt handle. This one was overhauled by the Germans and rework depots. The rifles do not exhibit much change except the addition of a serial number to the bands, triggerguard/floorplate, follower, bolt stop, and bolt pieces (normally only the handle has a number). The bolts were also blued. One thing worthy of mention is that it is common to see Imperial German parts: mainly the safety, the follower, and the sear. The followers make sense, as on the wz.29 the bolt will close over the follower when empty, where the German K98's will stop the bolt from closing. It may have been easier to replace than to repair. As for the safety and sear, I can only speculate. These depot rebuilds were only marked on the stock, either above or below the rear sling swivel - not on the metal so beware of fakes. Also these markings are not Waa markings. The one on this rifle is quite faint, but you can make it out if you know what to look for. I will go into these markings in my next post, so don't fret.

    Sadly this one too was lightly sanded. The bolt was re-numbered during the overhaul, as the SN is not across the handle like typical wz.29's, and its missing the SN letter suffix. Please note the cleaning rod is not original.
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Yes thanks for posting Chris!

    Are the slings on the Kbk wz.98 and German reworked wz.29 authentic Polish prewar slings? If so would you mind posting buckle close ups, construction details, stamps (if any), stitching, etc. Thanks.

    A question about serial number placement on Polish bolts:

    On your wz.29 with its bent handle, the serial number is on the bolt handle root. On straight handled wz.29 bolts I have seen, the serial numbers are usually stamped longitudinally along the handle.

    Was this the standard Polish practice? Did the Poles stamped the root on straight handle bolts sometimes?

    One more question. Any knowledge or comment about the placement of serial numbers on the left side of the buttstock just below the sling cut out. The numbers would be parallel to the buttplate, not placed horizontal to the heel.

    Thanks,
    Mike

  6. #66

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    This is a wz.29 that was overhauled by the Germans. This one is not sanded, but sadly has a mismatched bolt. It is an imperial Kar.98az bolt. The important thing to note is the rebuild markings.

    The rebuild markings are not Waa markings, but HZa markings (German Army Equipment Depot Heereszeugämter). Following the HZa, you will see a 2 letter city code, followed by (presumably) an inspector number. This rifle has 2, meaning it was serviced twice. One is HZaJt3 (Jngolstadt being the city) - which seems common to reworked wz.29's. The second has a different style eagle, but is marked HZaSu# (I can't make out the number, but the city code is Berlin-Spandau I beleive). I have never seen Nazi markings on the metal of a German reworked wz.29.

    Please note the cleaning rod is a German one, and the sling is not Polish, or WWII German. I beleive it was placed there post war, but thats how I got it and it looks good
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  7. #67

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Quote by dastier View Post
    Beautiful Kbk wz.98. You have a 1928 P.F.K Warsawa and I have a 1927 P.W.B Radom. I wonder if there were any noticeable differences in how the two factories made them?

    Post #5 if you want to take a look...

    Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Do you know what the shield with the eagle and the letter 'K' represents?
    I have seen slight differences in the receivers of kbk wz.98 between Warsawa and Radom, and that is the handguard lip. I have seen a couple that the lip is a bit longer, but for the most part that they are the same.

    An observations I would like to share, but please don't take this as a rule, is that Warsawa rifles do not seem have letter suffixes in the SN, but Radoms seem to. If anyone has a rifle that contradicts that, I would be eager to see it!


    I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector marking. I haven't seen enough examples to say whether this is a normal marking applied at the factory. The other example I have seen was much clearer, and it is a Polish Eagle on a shield. The K is in that shield. It is not very clear in my example, but you can see it.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Quote by dastier View Post
    Yes thanks for posting Chris!

    Are the slings on the Kbk wz.98 and German reworked wz.29 authentic Polish prewar slings? If so would you mind posting buckle close ups, construction details, stamps (if any), stitching, etc. Thanks.

    A question about serial number placement on Polish bolts:

    On your wz.29 with its bent handle, the serial number is on the bolt handle root. On straight handled wz.29 bolts I have seen, the serial numbers are usually stamped longitudinally along the handle.

    Was this the standard Polish practice? Did the Poles stamped the root on straight handle bolts sometimes?

    One more question. Any knowledge or comment about the placement of serial numbers on the left side of the buttstock just below the sling cut out. The numbers would be parallel to the buttplate, not placed horizontal to the heel.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    The slings on my kbk wz.98 and German reworked wz.29 are authentic. I will post some pics when I have a chance. There are no markings on them, so they are only identified by their very large buckle.

    From what I can tell, the SN's on straight bolts was on the handle, and the bent bolts was on the root. I have never seen a Polish bent bolt with the SN on the handle, and straight bolts with SN on the root. Anything is possible, but I beleive that was the norm.

    As for the SN on the buttstock, I have only seen the numbers on wz.29's being placed parallel with the stock above the sling swivel (look at my Nazi marked wz.29). It is complete with letter suffix. I have seen German renumbered stocks with the number added perpendicular without letter. These numbers are always on the spine above the sling swivel. I have not seen any proper examples with the number on the side of the stock.

    kbk wz.98's however, did have their stock SN perpendicular to the stock (German fashion), and there was bleed through into 1930's "K29" production. I'm not sure when the change took place.


    Edit - I see that you may be referring to SN markings on earlier wz.29's. I can say that marking style on early wz.29's (ie.1930) was different than the norm in later years.
    Last edited by stoggie; 07-13-2012 at 08:54 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Kbk wz.98 Serial Number Letter Suffixes

    Quote by stoggie View Post
    An observations I would like to share, but please don't take this as a rule, is that Warsawa rifles do not seem have letter suffixes in the SN, but Radoms seem to. If anyone has a rifle that contradicts that, I would be eager to see it!
    Seek and ye shall find....

    Here's is my 1927 P.W.B. Radom Kbk wz.28. Please note that the serial number does not have a letter suffix.

    Perhaps serial number suffixes were only found on later years of production. Personally I have not seen enough Kbk wz.98's to offer more than an opinion.

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    Last edited by dastier; 07-14-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Thanks for sharing that. I find it interesting that it is a vey early example. I wonder if anyone has ever done SN studies on kbk wz.98's. It would be very difficult, as I assume most were scrubbed and sent to Spain.

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