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Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

Article about: by stoggie I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector

  1. #71

    Default Polish Eagle and 'K' within Shield stamp

    Quote by stoggie View Post
    I don't know what the K represents, but I do recall one for sale that also had that marking, and it was said to be from the Krakow armoury. For all I know it could be a inspector marking. I haven't seen enough examples to say whether this is a normal marking applied at the factory. The other example I have seen was much clearer, and it is a Polish Eagle on a shield. The K is in that shield. It is not very clear in my example, but you can see it.
    Here is a photo of the 'K' within a shield on my 1927 P.W.B. Radom Kbk wz.98. The Polish eagle is faintly visible above it. If anyone has more information about what this represents, please post.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #72

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Here is some data collated from the wz.29 survey thread in the Military Mauser forum on Gunboards.com and from Kbk wz.29's presented here on War Relics.

    Hopefully it won't be too hard to follow. I tried uploading it as a spreadsheet but lost the formatting.

    Kbk wz.29 Side Rail Markings:
    1927 to 1929 - K98 or original German markings (e.g., Gew.98)
    1929 to 1933 - K29 or K98-29
    1933 to 1939 - wz29

    'n' = script n, not known if lower case d, m, or p are in script - this is how they were reported in the survey; NA = not applicable; K98 = wz.98/29.

    Matching/ Year/ Crest/ Serial #/ Polish Suffix/ X'ed Out/ Suffix Added/ Receiver Stamp

    Unknown/ 1929/ ? Radom/ 6786/ U
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 2086/ No/ NA/ d
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 3007/ No/ NA/ m/ K29
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 3459/ No/ NA/ m/ K29
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 51xx/ K29
    Matching/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 6386/ W/ Yes/ 'n'/ K29
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 6709/ No/ NA/ p/ K29
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 7629/ K29
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 7742/ No/ NA/ 'n'
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 7801/ K98
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 782x/ No/ NA/ p
    Matching/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 8014/ No/ NA/ 'n'/ K29
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 8584/ 8/ No/ NA/ K29
    No/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 9215/ L/ Yes/ 'n'
    Unknown/ 1930/ F.B.Radom/ 9702/ L/ Yes/ 'n'/ K29
    Unknown/ 1931/ F.B.Radom/ 1302/ K29
    Matching/ 1931/ F.B.Radom/ 3662/ K98
    Matching/ 1934/ F.B.Radom/ 60555/ M/ wz29
    Matching/ 1934/ F.B.Radom/ 85927/ M/ wz29
    No/ 1934/ F.B.Radom/ 88386/ M/ wz29
    Matching/ 1935/ F.B.Radom/ 11525/ P/ wz29
    Matching/ 1935/ F.B.Radom/ 23429/ P/ wz29
    Matching/ 1936/ F.B.Radom/ 36162/ P/ wz29
    Matching/ 1936/ F.B.Radom/ 39189/ P/ wz29
    Unknown/ 1937/ F.B.Radom/ 22935/ wz29
    Matching/ 1937/ F.B.Radom/ 60245/ P/ wz29
    Matching/ 1937/ F.B.Radom/ 74650/ P/ wz29
    Unknown/ 1937/ F.B.Radom/ 76038/ P/ wz29
    Unknown/ 1938/ F.B.Radom/ 11505/ P/ wz29
    No/ 1938/ F.B.Radom/ 49226/ Z/ wz29
    Matching/ 1938/ F.B.Radom/ 53687/ Z/ wz29
    No/ 1938/ F.B.Radom/ 56410/ Z/ wz29

    There is a discussion in the relevant Gunboards thread about the origin of the scripted 'n'. Its been suggested that this suffix was added to the serial number by the Germans when they reworked the captured Polish rifles.

    Out of the 33 Kbk wz.29's listed, 5 have a scripted 'n' added to the serial number. On 3 out of the 5 wz.29's, the upper case letter suffix of the serial number is crossed out; on the other two there was no upper case suffix to the Polish serial number.

    In the survey d,m, and p reported as suffixes to the serial numbers but its not clear if they were intended to be lower case or that D, M, and P were meant. I have listed them as 'Added Suffixes' as Poles used upper case suffixes added to the serial numbers.

    Anyone care to comment about these suffixes?

  3. #73

    Default 1930 F.B. Radom Karabinek wz.29

    1930 F.B. Radom Karabinek wz.29

    Here are photos of a matching 1930 F.B. Radom Karabinek wz.29 that recently sold on the Gunbroker.com auction site in the U.S.A. The receiver is stamped K29 not WZ29 which is correct for a Kbk wz.29 made prior to 1933.

    The serial number on the receiver, floorplate and buttplate has the suffix 'W' crossed out and a 'n' applied. This is also seen on the bolt and on the stock (no 'W' suffix), which is not stamped longitudinally behind the wrist but perpendicular. There has been a discussion in the Military Mausers forum on Gunboards.com about whether or not the suffix 'n', the bolt serial number and the stock serial number were applied by the Germans or by the Poles:

    Matching 1930 F.B. Radom Wz.29 auction

    It has been suggested that the suffix 'n' was added when the Germans reworked this carbine. However this Kbk wz.29 does not have any HZa markings (German Army Equipment Depot Heereszeugämter) stamped on the stock. An alternative suggestion has been made that the suffix 'n' signifies a Polish rebuild and not a German one.

    In addition the number '86' is stamped on the follower, front sight, bolt parts and front barrel band which are not normally numbered on the Kbk wz.29. This is also thought to indicate a German rework. However it was suggested on Gunboards.com that this might be the Polish practice on early manufactured wz.29 carbines. I believe these parts are numbered on early Kbk wz.98's.

    The description of this Kbk wz.29 did mention that the leaf of the rear sight is stamped with the number '686', this being the last three digits of the serial number. This is consistent with the Polish practice.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    1930 F.B. Radom Front Barrel Band.jpg
    Click on this link to see the barrel band
    Last edited by dastier; 07-19-2012 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Added photo of disassembled bolt

  4. #74

    Default Karabinek wz.91/98/25 use in the Wojsko Polskie

    Karabinek wz.91/98/23 and wz.91/98/25 use in the Wojsko Polskie

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Information taken from 'Wielka Encyklopedia Uzbrojenia 1918-1939' indicates that wz.91/98/25 carbines were in use from 1920 to 1939 by squadron HQ staff and in 'tabor' units (which Google translates into 'caravans'; also as 'trains'). Horse artillery regiments were mentioned using wz.91/98/25 carbines from 1927 until 1936, after which they were replaced by wz.98 Mauser rifles. The 'Wielka Encyklopedia Uzbrojenia 1918-1939' also reports that some cavalry units were equipped with the Kbk wz.91/98/23 and Kbk wz.91/98/25 in 1929 and, in the case of the 5th Regiment of Mounted Rifles, since1927.

    These carbines were also used by the gendarmerie and from 1929 by the Border Guards (Strazy Granicznej) and National Defense Battalions (Batalionom Obrony Narodowej). In addition, the Kbk wz.91/98/25 was supplied to the State Police (Policji Panstwowej).

    The Border Protection Corps (Korpus Ochrony Pogranicza) used the wz.91/98/23 from its formation in 1924. Total numbers used by the 'KOP' are not known but photographs show that the weapon was fairly common. After the withdrawal of the Kbk wz.91/98/25 from front line service in the Wojsko Polskie, the newly established National Defense battalions had 76,400 carbines on establishment in 1939.

    During the years 1925-1927 Poland obtained 41,600 Mosin Nagant rifles from Romania in exchange for 31,062 German wz.98 rifles and carbines.

    7th Horse Artillery Battalion Soldiers armed with wz.91 98 25.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Border Protection Corps soldiers, 1930.
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    Legion Of Women Volunteers, 1920 training exercise.
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    Militia training, Battle of Warsaw 1920.
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    Reference: Wielka Encyklopedia Uzbrojenia M.S.Wojsk. 1918 - 1939

  5. #75

    Default Wz.91/98/25 Bolt Modifications

    Wz.91/98/25 Bolt Modifications

    Here are some pics of the Polish modifications done to the Mosin Nagant M91 bolt for use in the wz.91/98/25. Also shown are the serial numbers and stamps applied by the Poles.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks to Gunboards.com member 'Toshik' who posted these pics in a thread about Polish Mosin Nagant conversions in the Collector's Forum - Mosin Nagant HQ. An attempt was made to contact Toshik for permission to use his pics but was unsuccessful. If 'Toshik' so wishes these pics will be removed.

  6. #76
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    The valuable info/documentation just keeps rolling in!
    Great thread and info.
    Good that this is a sticky. Super reference material IMO.

  7. #77
    3mk
    3mk is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Heres a picture of the wz.35 Anti-Tank rifle in the Polish military museum in Warsaw (bottom of display).

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #78

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Thanks for posting the pic 3mk. Would you mind sharing info about the uniforms and pennants as well.

  9. #79
    3mk
    3mk is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Unfortunately the photo is not mine, I found it online. Still haven't had the pleasure of visiting the military museum in Warsaw. I think they are artillery uniforms and pennants.

  10. #80
    3mk
    3mk is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Pistols, Rifles, Machine Guns and Crew Served Weapons of Partitioned Poland and the Polish 2nd Republic

    Found this photo on a Polish forum Karabin samopowtarzalny wz.38 and below it, Mors wz.39.

    Click image for larger version. 

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