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Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

Article about: by dorava who really cares about the hole in the pocket anyway? That's like someone gazing at a priceless Rembrandt and saying "The frame looks a little bit too thick". I agree tha

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by justin1939 View Post
    Hello,

    Here is the main picture of an estate sale of a Wz.36 Polish Cavalry Major's uniform from the 4th Cavelry (Pomeranian) Regiment.

    I have won the Document Case and Wz.36 Belt.

    I will add more photos later.

    Here is the main photo.

    Justin1939

    jacquetta44@yahoo.com
    Hello
    Unfortunately most parts of this set was fake.
    1. Document case is post war.
    2. Officers belt is britisch or french - definitely not polish!
    3. Rogatywka is post war probably.
    4. Insignia on jacket are fake. Some time ago this jacket was offer on allegro without major rank, "4", and collar tabs.
    5. Saber is fake
    6. VIS holster is fake.
    Only Kolberg binoculars was good.
    This set we may buy few times in Poland but we discovered that this is scam...sorry.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by Orkan View Post
    . . . 2. Officers belt is britisch or french - definitely not polish!
    Did the British or French ever use white metal components on these belts?

    Quote by Orkan View Post
    Hello
    . . . 4. Insignia on jacket are fake. Some time ago this jacket was offer on allegro without major rank, "4", and collar tabs.
    I did not see this auction. By chance do you have any saved images?

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Did the British or French ever use white metal components on these belts?


    I did not see this auction. By chance do you have any saved images?

    Regards,
    Tony
    Hello Tony
    Do You think that only Poland have belts with metal componets? I don't know well at british or french belts, but these one looks very similar to them, and like I said it's definitely not polish.
    This auction is not acitved so we can't see the photos. But this complet has been discussed on two polish forums, and we found out that this is a scam.
    I'll try to get pictures of this jacket before "tuning".

  4. #54

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Hi Orkan,

    Quote by Orkan View Post
    Do You think that only Poland have belts with metal componets? . . .
    To clarify: white metal components. (i.e. silver coloured) Brass parts seem to be the standard.

    Quote by Orkan View Post
    . . . I'll try to get pictures of this jacket before "tuning".
    Thank you. It would be interesting to see how it was ‘tuned’.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  5. #55
    ?

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Hi Orkan,


    To clarify: white metal components. (i.e. silver coloured) Brass parts seem to be the standard.



    Thank you. It would be interesting to see how it was ‘tuned’.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Tony, look to buckle of wz.36 that You showed in other post, and buckle from belt from auction. They are completely different. Notice that wz.36 was performed according to strict conditions. Wz.36 also had no hook on the sabre.
    This belt from auction is similar to wz.19 belt...but it is not wz.19 also. Otherwise buckle in wz.19 wasn't made in BM.
    Wz.24 had few types of buckles made in brass (sometimes in BM) but buckle from auction also doesn't match to them.
    Regards
    Orkan

  6. #56

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by Orkan View Post
    Tony, look to buckle of wz.36 that You showed in other post, and buckle from belt from auction. They are completely different. Notice that wz.36 was performed according to strict conditions. . . .
    Hi Orkan,

    Agreed, there are differences. But I hesitate to dismiss that belt so quickly. The stumbling block for me remains the white metal fittings. They are rarely ever encountered on these belts. I’d like to find out if white metal belt fittings were regulation in any other nation’s armed forces. The basic Sam Browne style belt patterns used were very similar, and brass parts seems to be the standard.

    Also, photographic evidence from the time confirms differences in the belts used. An example is the photograph of Smigly-Rydz below, which was taken after the introduction of the new uniform regulations that would remain in effect until the outbreak of WW2. His belt buckle is a narrower type similar to the one we are discussing.

    Take a look at any period group photograph of officers and you will often see a variety of different belts and other items used. While regulations governing all aspects of military uniforms were in place it seems that there was a relaxed approach at getting every last piece of the uniform in line with the new rules.

    This is a good discussion and I look forward to your continued comments!

    Regards,
    Tony
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  7. #57
    ?

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Hi Orkan,

    Agreed, there are differences. But I hesitate to dismiss that belt so quickly. The stumbling block for me remains the white metal fittings. They are rarely ever encountered on these belts. I’d like to find out if white metal belt fittings were regulation in any other nation’s armed forces. The basic Sam Browne style belt patterns used were very similar, and brass parts seems to be the standard.

    Also, photographic evidence from the time confirms differences in the belts used. An example is the photograph of Smigly-Rydz below, which was taken after the introduction of the new uniform regulations that would remain in effect until the outbreak of WW2. His belt buckle is a narrower type similar to the one we are discussing.

    Take a look at any period group photograph of officers and you will often see a variety of different belts and other items used. While regulations governing all aspects of military uniforms were in place it seems that there was a relaxed approach at getting every last piece of the uniform in line with the new rules.

    This is a good discussion and I look forward to your continued comments!

    Regards,
    Tony
    Hello Tony
    Picture with marshal Śmigły was made in 02.05.1936. The provision introducing wz.36 belt was announced in 10.08.1936 by Dz. Rozk. MSWojsk nr 12 poz. 135 - so it can't be wz.36 belt. Probably on picture we can see one of type wz.27 belt.
    Ok material of buckle is simillar to white metal, but buckle as well as the whole belt is done quite differently than the polish belts - look carefully at the pictures of the original belt.
    I think that Wz.36 and wz.24 also had no hook on the sabre. Otherwise buckle in wz.19 wasn't made in BM.I have info that belt from auction may be from Holland also.
    Last edited by Orkan; 04-01-2011 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Hi Orkan,

    Thanks for the info on the photo date. I’d like to find out more info about this particular photograph as it’s always been a favorite. This is a scan of an original Pikiel print. Do you know where it was taken, and what the occasion was for a public speech? Also, Rydz-Śmigły’s hand cover the face of a senior officer in a wz.27 rogatywka (even though the wz.35 regulations were already technically in force as evidenced by Rydz-Śmigły’s cap) – any idea who this is? Lastly, who’s the civilian on the left and the young chap standing behind the marshal?

    Now to get back on topic –

    >>> I think that Wz.36 and wz.24 also had no hook on the sabre. <<<

    I’ll check to see if the wz.24 belt had the hook.

    I wrote in the parallel thread where this is being discussed that there’s no denying this belt does not strictly meet the wz.36 specifications. The questions raised: could it have been adapted for use by replacing the brass parts with white metal? How stringently were wz.36 requirements applied when it came to belt wear? (Asked previously): Were white metal fittings ever used on Sam Brown belts in Britain, France, elsewhere? You mention Holland as a possible origin of this belt, maybe someone can verify this.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Here are two examples of map cases.

    Polish and soviet. Easily confused by their similar size.
    The Polish case is well marked and has a felt separtion between sections.

    The Soviet one does not and is about 10 % smaller.

    I do hope my Polish map case is not a repro...

    cheers,

    Piwo
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  10. #60
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    Default Re: Polish Uniforms, etc pre-39

    Original wz. 36 tunic and field gear

    Polish Mausers, wz.34 officers saber, officers tunic and field gear

    All on display in Yorkville, Illinois for Polish 12th lancers re-enactment event
    at the PNA camp September, 2009

    I promise to forward quality close up photos in the future.

    cheers,

    Piwo
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