Is this a Polish WWII Brodie style helmet ?
Article about: Hello to all here in this forum. I'm new here in this forum, I'm from Portugal and I collect military helmets. A few years ago, my father bought in a flea market in Lisbon the helmet of this
Is this a Polish WWII Brodie style helmet ?
Hello to all here in this forum.
I'm new here in this forum, I'm from Portugal and I collect military helmets.
A few years ago, my father bought in a flea market in Lisbon the helmet of this photos.
For many years we both though this could be a WWI or WWII helmet from British or U.S. army, but since we never found any other like this to compare, our doubts remain til today.
A few months I started looking for a Polish WZ.31 Salamandra helmet for my collection... unfortunately till now I haven't found one good enough..., but with this search and many photos I saw, I began to notice some similar characteristics between the WZ.31 salamandra helmet and one that I have, the shape and style of the helmets are completely diferent, but the liner, chinstrap and the anti reflective salamadra paint are almost a perfect match.
And this raised my question, is this some kind of Polish WWII salamandra variant helmet ?
I really can't find anything similar to this helmet on the web, at least looking for a Polish style helmet of WWII.
Can anyone give me some help about this ? I really would apreciate to solve this almost 20 years mistery.
The green paint on this helmet was aplied on top of another one that seems to be brown.
There are no marks, dates, numbers or any kind of stamps on this helmet, unlike the WZ.31 models usually have.
Thanks to all.
Last edited by fct2006; 11-08-2015 at 12:54 AM.
I cannot give you any useful response about your helmet, but it is absolutely fascinating. I have checked Kijak's book on Polish helmets and all the most useful websites (including the excellent Polish site here - HE - and I can see nothing similar. But there your helmet does seem to have a genuine Polish chinstrap and the liner is apparently typical of those made by the Ludwikow factory. The only problem is that there is no evidence of the Poles ever having made Brodie-type shells!
There is of course the possibility that a Polish serviceman fitted the liner from a wz-31 into a British shell. Well, that's obvious, isn't it. But not necessarily the real answer.
There are a few Polish collectors here, and I hope they come in with some comments. There is also a Polish section on Warrelcs - http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/polish-militaria/ - and maybe you should copy your question there. I will be *very* interested to know the facts.
(I am also an enthusiast of 20th Portuguese helmets - if you have anything interesting please post it!)
Thank you for answering my question and for your informations, this is indeed a mistery helmet, I've also done lots of research on the web and came up with nothing at the end, but I also have hope that some Polish militaria collector can give more informations about this helmet.
The photos I have here are not the best, recently I bought a new camera and will take new and better photos, with some closeup details like the paint and other situations that this photos can't show very well.
I had my question on the Polish section and moved it here, but I'm taking your advise and already done a copy to that section, after all there can't be a better place to ask for an answer on this situation.... if this is indeed a Polish helmet like it seems.
Yes I also agree that a Polish soldier could have used a WZ.31 liner on a British helmet, that idead also came to my mind, but some things on this helmet are so strange that I think it was impossible for a soldier to do, how could he get a cloth liner instead of the usual leather ? Did Ludwikow factory produced liners in cloth ?
And the paint ? With new and better closeup photos I'll take, you will see how this is so incredible similiar to the Salamandra camouflage used on the WZ.31 helmets. I've seen on the web some people trying to recreat that camouflage, but never saw any final result even close to the original, but on this helmet I almost can say that this was factory painted and not a soldier, if it's fake it's the best I've seen and almost can fool an expert !!
And another thing that is suspicious, but this I have not yet compared and only now thought about, it's if we could supose a Polish soldier used a British shell, do the holes for the liners to attached to the helmet match ? Both in the place they are done as for the size of the hole regarding the pressed rivets used, by British and this ones that are also very similar to the Polish WZ-31 helmets ?
Interesting situation that I'm going to compare with some British helmets I have, but if they don't match we can only supose the shells came without holes from some place, and later were mounted with this configuration.
Let's see what happens and if some other collectors can help.
Regarding Portuguese 20th century helmets I have a few in my collection, one of them is the very rare model 1913 felt helmet I recently aquired. Now with a new photo camera I'll start doing photos of my collection and will post them here, I'm very happy to be member of this forum and I'm sure I'll find many other nice collectors like you, to change ideas, photos and maybe even help with doubts concerning Portuguese militaria.
Best regards to you.
Indeed, this is strange helmet...
You're right - its paint, chinstrap and liner looks similar to Polish helmets. Excepting a kind of leather - Polish leather was smoother and more gloss. But the rest is correct! I'm very confused...
Could You put a pics of details?
I will be asking.
could be from wz.31 exported to Spain and made its way to the Brodie shell in Spain or Portugal.
Surely not Polish pre-1939 issue.
Looking for following WWII German items:
- anything dealing with Allenstein (Olsztyn) and Wehrkreis I in East Prussia,
- entrenching tool carrier (straight and folding),
- forestry and hunting items,
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OK, now I can see - "leather" is not "leather"
Thanks for the comments and help.
I'll take better and closer photos to replace the ones posted here, maybe later today I can have then posted here.
I know the director of the Portuguese military museum to whom I have sent this photos, because it was bought in Lisbon we both had the same thought, regarding the possibility of the factory that produced the WZ.31 helmet had some similar prototypes that tried to sell to the Portuguese army, even prior to the WZ.31.
And since all items bought or received by the army for trials are most likely registrated, it's possible we can find something there.
The liner on this helmet is made of cloth, not leather, something that also makes me think this could be for countries with different weather conditions then Poland, because snow and water could quickly damage the liners, on the other if they are made of leather they can last longer with bad weather conditions.
Let's see if with your help we find a solution for this mistery helmet.
Thanks to all.
Maybe a look at a Baltic army will shed some light?
Poland did deliver some helmets to Estonia as far as I remember? Possibly they supplied some civic liners? Shell's too?
Wild guess of course.
Thanks and I already done some research on that, but still can't find anything like this helmet.
In German helmets on e-bay just added
In WW1 Allies: Great Britain, France, USA, etc 1914 - 1918
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