4th Armoured Regiment Skorpion Insignia Question

[tarkers]

All,
I am trying to find out when the regiment started to wear the scorpion badged collar pennons. I believe the breast badge was authorised post-war (1946?) and was wondering if the collars are contemporary with that or if they were in use prior to the end of the conflict. And that then asks the question of what they wore if they didn't wear the scorpions.
Any info greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Greg

[harryamb2]

I think the LRDG.

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hi Greg, based on the photographic evidence the metal collar pennons first appear on uniforms at the same time as the regimental badge. My references make no mention of exactly when these collar pennons were first introduced. The regimental badge was officially authorized May 10, 1946. I suspect the production order for both the badges and pennons to the firm of Picchiani & Barlacchi was placed together. There were several variants of the collar pennon which suggest subsequent orders. There may have been also been two or more separate badge orders. Later badges issued to new recruits to the regiment were not serial numbered.

Prior to the metal pennons with the scorpion the regiment wore a triangular form of pennon on the collars, with the black/orange armoured colours:



The first scorpion insignia displayed was on the beret. This was a metal or embroidered scorpion on a red rhomboid. The beret badge was formally authourized on April 2, 1945. The beret insignia and collar pennons were designed by Ludwik Kuźniarz. He also had a hand in the creation of the regimental badge.



Regards,
Tony

[tarkers]

Hi Tony,
Many thanks for the answer. Would it be safe to assume (dangerous I know) that the same would hold for the other "fancy" metal collar pennons like those for the 7th Armoured Regiment i.e that they are all post Armistice


Regards,
Greg

[StefanM]

2PolCorps armoured unit breast badges were issued post war so you are are on safe ground re Italian produced collar pennons also being post-war. Although the "armoured arm" symbol breast badges could have been pre-war.

[tarkers]

Hi Stefan,
Thanks for that. Is there any evidence of pre-war armour battalion breast badges in use within 2nd Armoured Brigade (or in any armoured formation)? Not sure how feasible it would have been for troops to retain any pre-war insignia - most likely I guess are the troops that went to France.
Also speaking to Tony's point about the triangle shaped collar pennon for 4th Armoured Regiment - would that have been a generic collar pennon for 2nd Armoured Brigade tank units or did the units have their own regimental patterns?

BR,
Greg

[StefanM]

I agree. Many pre-war badges were copied by a number of British makers during the war as replacements for the Polish forces in exile. However the odd original pre-war badge does crop up in award groupings but how they got there is often anyone's guess.