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Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

Article about: yes Gary this is correct all three samples are from England and not Middle East will seek additional photos of the Middle East

  1. #341

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    Thanks for your posts Michal and dorava. Very interesting to see the original #4 Artillery School badge along with one of its deceptive imposters.

    For the record, here are the rest of the auction pictures of the new imposter #4. I see that the bidding is starting to climb for this auction. Hopefully the bidders chance upon this forum in time to save themselves from making a very expensive mistake, as has been the case with some of this sellers other offerings claimed to be “ORIGINAL”.

    Take note of the close up picture showing the hallmarks. Look very closely at the edge of the badge. You can see the light catching what appears to be a casting seam. Needless to say, a red flag on what is supposed to be a die stamped badge.



    Regards,
    Tony
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  2. #342
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    excellent eyes on spotting that tell tale give away of it being cast..

  3. #343

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    Fellows
    I have been busy with work this week and therefore no time to participate in the Forum.
    No doubts - Art School and Cavalery School are both repos .
    I hope Tony is right and bidders slow down.

    10 Drag – I am not sure – it is not the version I have send as “war made one” on number of uniforms – but I have to say 10 Drag is a tricky one

    What do You think about 1 Heavy Art - I have reservations

  4. #344
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    What indicates so conclusively that cavalry school badge is a repro?

  5. #345

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    Hello!

    Here is original one Szkola Porchorazych Kawalerii Pancernej badge, you can compare:




    Best Regards

  6. #346
    ?

    Exclamation Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    A note on Hallmarks !
    Copying or even owning a "silver" item with a forged hallmark is an offence in England.

    See the following for details .....

    The Birmingham Assay Office

    Gary J.

    Quote :
    16 OFFENCES
    In addition to those already referred to the following are the most important offences-
    (a) for any person to forge or counterfeit a hallmark with intent to defraud or deceive or to transpose a hallmark from one article to another;
    (b) for any person to supply or offer to supply an article bearing a counterfeit mark knowing or believing the mark to be counterfeit;
    (c) for any person without lawful authority or excuse to have in his custody or control an article which to his knowledge or belief bears a counterfeit of any mark;
    (d) for any person knowingly or for any dealer to supply an article bearing a mark of the character of a hallmark or likely to be confused with a hallmark which the Assay Office are satisfied has not been struck thereon by an Assay Office or is not a true description because the article appears to have been the subject of an improper alteration.

    Sections 6 and 7.

    17 PENALTIES
    For any offence under this Act the penalties are, in the case of summary conviction, a fine not exceeding £2,000 or, on conviction on indictment, an unlimited fine or a term of imprisonment not exceeding two years or both, except in the case of forgery or counterfeiting in which case the term of imprisonment is one not exceeding ten years.

    Section 6 (I) and Schedule 3 (as amended).

  7. #347
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    Quote by MichalMag View Post
    Hello!

    Here is original one Szkola Porchorazych Kawalerii Pancernej badge, you can compare:




    Best Regards
    Yes the photo of the original cavarly school comes from my photos, but still dosent prove anything ......numbers on back missing....anything else?

  8. #348
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    most likely not in Poland


    Quote by Gary J View Post
    A note on Hallmarks !
    Copying or even owning a "silver" item with a forged hallmark is an offence in England.

    See the following for details .....

    The Birmingham Assay Office

    Gary J.

    Quote :
    16 OFFENCES
    In addition to those already referred to the following are the most important offences-
    (a) for any person to forge or counterfeit a hallmark with intent to defraud or deceive or to transpose a hallmark from one article to another;
    (b) for any person to supply or offer to supply an article bearing a counterfeit mark knowing or believing the mark to be counterfeit;
    (c) for any person without lawful authority or excuse to have in his custody or control an article which to his knowledge or belief bears a counterfeit of any mark;
    (d) for any person knowingly or for any dealer to supply an article bearing a mark of the character of a hallmark or likely to be confused with a hallmark which the Assay Office are satisfied has not been struck thereon by an Assay Office or is not a true description because the article appears to have been the subject of an improper alteration.

    Sections 6 and 7.

    17 PENALTIES
    For any offence under this Act the penalties are, in the case of summary conviction, a fine not exceeding £2,000 or, on conviction on indictment, an unlimited fine or a term of imprisonment not exceeding two years or both, except in the case of forgery or counterfeiting in which case the term of imprisonment is one not exceeding ten years.

    Section 6 (I) and Schedule 3 (as amended).

  9. #349
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    I have marked three points on the badge up for sale which I find worrisome. All three indicates its a cast product that has been polished. As you can see on the details they don't appear as clear as on the original badge posted by Michmag. The bottom of the pennon, where it splits into two, has a weird mark. Normally that is a byproduct of the casting process. The same goes for the mark on the left side of the badge.

    This badge could have been made in silver, since that material is easier to work with and it allows to hide the "bubbles". Not completely! The 800 hallmark is also very poorly made.

    Regarding the SPA badge, its a 100% fake made by Bialkiewicz. I have seen up close a few of them over the years. All with number 4. Its very light, as made of aluminum or some similar material.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #350
    ?

    Default Re: Auction items .. Good, Bad or Indifferent ?

    And to perhaps put an end to claims that all if not most copies originate from Poland, I would like to nuance the discussion with pointing out that many of the well made fakes were made by a collector in the Chicago area many years ago. He got famous for his wonderful collection but he also manufactured badges and szablas. Especially he manged to make an extremely well made copy of the Wz.17 szabla. It has fooled collectors ever since. I wont mention his name since he passed away some years ago. And no its not Crocodrilo from Ebay!

    So in my book we have two persons outside Poland who have contributed greatly in making this hobby so interesting, by denying us the comfort of assuming something must be good if it looks good. When it comes to WW2 reproductions these products are the most commonly spread as originals.

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