Page 20 of 152 FirstFirst ... 101617181920212223243070120 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 1511

Polish Hat Eagles

Article about: In my opinion this particular cap eagle was made by G.J. Garratt Toronto. Very unique, hard to find.

  1. #191
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    I'm not sure if the PAF badge has been copied ... BUT !!! some of the English types most definitely have !!!
    As stated though, the "plastic" on these copies shows no age.



    Also on original badges (especially the British Para badge, ) I have made a note to look at the reverse of as many originals as possible for the reason that in the production process, the ejector pins in the mold always leave a mark in exactly the same place, and the plastic always forms set patterns under the injection process.

    Note the pictures of the PAF badges.
    There is a difference in production with a "T1" and "T2" type.
    Note the horizontal ejector pin mark on the "T1" type between the ends of the blades for example ...
    Also again on the "T1" type ... the hairline raised mark from where the brass prong meets the plastic to the edge.

    The backs are the giveaway !!! .. the fronts being perfect to mold face !

    Regards

    Gary J.
    Last edited by Gary J; 05-15-2010 at 05:57 AM.

  2. #192
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    And here is an example of the plastic British para cap badge ...
    .. Characteristic plastic shrinkage at each prong end, and ejector mark at the 4 o'clock position under the right hand prong.

    Gary J.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #193
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    And .. another sort after silver Plastic type ..Britsh AAC
    Again posted to show example reverse mold marks on these type of badges ..
    (Round Ejector pin mark between prongs, and the plastic never seems to fully form where the "AAC" in the lower section reverse is, plus hairline mold mark line ((raised)) above the "A. Stanley & Sons).

    Gary J.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AAC Cap badge plastic front.jpg 
Views:	255 
Size:	237.1 KB 
ID:	104966   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AAC Cap Badge plastic back.jpg 
Views:	189 
Size:	243.2 KB 
ID:	104967  


  4. #194
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Friends,
    Well my opinion is:
    - they made 12000 of them which looks like a lot but it is not. Total production of infantry one´s was 136 500 pieces. We know they are also quite rare and you can´t find them every week or so like Pelestine made ones. Not so many survive because of poor quality and soldiers simply didn´t like them and throw them away. To be honest plastic PAF is one of ugliest polish eagles ever made. Pilots didn´t like tham and prefered bullion versions.
    About color I saw many of them and all are had diffrent shade of silver. Some of them are really shiny and some are really dull gray. Here is picture of infantry eagle which was used by polish paratrooper from 1 SBS during M-G operation. He showed me that on in Oosterbeek in 2007. It was really shiny and had broken metal mounting stripes.

    About 2-3 same pieces from veterans. They never have doubles. Maybe POLAND scrolls but not eagles or other things.

    In my opinion no doubt that all plastic ones are original. Even in poland wher thay makes copies of almost every polish badge no one did plastic eagles. Some of guy copied 12 Uhlans in metal but never in plastic. Is too difficult and really cost a lot of money. To make casting form cost a couple of thousend dollars. Eagles are expensive but how many you will sell it for a 1000$ ? Not a lot I guess. It is really good to have conversation like this, we can all learn something.

  5. #195

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Hi Marcin,

    I think you have part of the answer in that 'plastic' was considered by most people at that time (and to a certain extent toady) as cheap mass produced imitation of a more expensive material such as metal so as you have observed many servicemen probably discarded their plastic eagles as soon as they were able to obtain a 'real' metal replacement.

    As to the reason that a small flood of these plastic badges have come onto the market? I think this is easily explained by the fact that owners of such 'cheap' plastic eagles probably didn't think they were worth anything much as they consider them to be inferior cheap ol' plastic mass production items but have seen the recent high prices obtained for such badges and naturally seize the opportunity while the market is hot for this type of badge... they probably think if someone is fool enough to pay 700£ + for a plastic badge I will gladly take that fool's money

    I am sure we have all noticed this before that when other artifacts hit high market prices, more of the same come magically out of hiding!

    However having said that it is not as expensive to reproduce plastic badges as you might believe. Like all these things if you or I don't have access to the tool making machines and processes required for the manufacturing it could cost thousands to design and make the tooling etc. But an injection moulder for example already has the tools, and the tool makers on staff so the costs are less for him than it would be for you and I to commission such a company to produce badges on a customer basis. IMO this is true of the companies that produce repro metal copies also.

    But why would anyone want to go to the trouble of making such fakes? Surely you would have to trickle these onto the market so as not to undermine the high values achieved by oversupply—and yesterday's 700£ becomes today's 7£ and everyone realises its not worth collecting them. Surely the collectors market for PAF badges plastic or otherwise, is never going to be that large especially if 12 000 originals may already be out there! Are there really 12,000 PAF collectors?


    Quote by Marcin View Post
    Friends,
    Well my opinion is:
    - they made 12000 of them which looks like a lot but it is not. Total production of infantry one´s was 136 500 pieces. We know they are also quite rare and you can´t find them every week or so like Pelestine made ones. Not so many survive because of poor quality and soldiers simply didn´t like them and throw them away. To be honest plastic PAF is one of ugliest polish eagles ever made. Pilots didn´t like tham and prefered bullion versions.
    About color I saw many of them and all are had diffrent shade of silver. Some of them are really shiny and some are really dull gray. Here is picture of infantry eagle which was used by polish paratrooper from 1 SBS during M-G operation. He showed me that on in Oosterbeek in 2007. It was really shiny and had broken metal mounting stripes.

    About 2-3 same pieces from veterans. They never have doubles. Maybe POLAND scrolls but not eagles or other things.

    In my opinion no doubt that all plastic ones are original. Even in poland wher thay makes copies of almost every polish badge no one did plastic eagles. Some of guy copied 12 Uhlans in metal but never in plastic. Is too difficult and really cost a lot of money. To make casting form cost a couple of thousend dollars. Eagles are expensive but how many you will sell it for a 1000$ ? Not a lot I guess. It is really good to have conversation like this, we can all learn something.
    Last edited by StefanM; 05-15-2010 at 02:06 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  6. #196
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Exactly, I don`t thinkl that anybody would bother to make copies of that. Haw many you can sell at this price? I didn´t paid and I would´t pay that sort of money. As you said today 700£ tommorow might be 7£ and with any collectibles is so. Two crazy guys on ebay is enough to bid and pay sky-high price for badge like this. That does´t mean is worth that sort of money. It is also true if something sell for crazy money people will put same stuff on ebay. Last 3-4 months on ebay UK were and are regullary officers PAF eagles. They are selling them between 250-400£. If I had few of them and I would saw how much you can get ofcourse I would put one for sale. Probably they got them for penny years ago and now they making nice profit. I have nothing against it, this is market.
    Any way, my conclusion is that they are all good. T1 and T2 is lot marking I guess. They could use more than one mold as well. Probably we will never get answers. Best way would be to ask somebody from factory
    Last edited by Marcin; 05-15-2010 at 04:07 PM.

  7. #197

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    . . . But why would anyone want to go to the trouble of making such fakes? Surely you would have to trickle these onto the market so as not to undermine the high values achieved by oversupply . . .
    Quote by Marcin View Post
    Exactly, I don't think that anybody would bother to make copies of that. Haw many you can sell at this price? . . .
    Logical points that remain true for the most part. But pause for a moment to consider the following pre-WW2 122nd Fighter Squadron set. This badge and matching document are FAKE. Made in Poland in a very limited quantity by evidently very skilled counterfeiters. On initial glance these could easily fool even advanced collectors. I have seen the badge alone listed on Allegro a couple of years ago, and suspect it was from this batch. As expected, the price fetched was high. SCARY!

    Regards,
    Tony
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	122nd fake (1).jpg 
Views:	61 
Size:	237.0 KB 
ID:	105118   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	122nd fake.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	235.7 KB 
ID:	105121  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	122nd fake (3).jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	241.3 KB 
ID:	105122   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	122nd fake (2).jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	236.1 KB 
ID:	105123  

    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

  8. #198

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Friends
    Truly fascinating debate.
    Thank you all for bringing up various arguments both soft (would it b profitable to make them?) and hard (like Gary’s – looking at badges produced in similar technology)
    I guess there are still 2 camps believers and non-believers.

    Let’s do a social experiment and do the vote among us

    Are they original – Yes / No
    Estimated Value – XXXX£

    Let's see what the verdict is!

  9. #199
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    to me they are good - I wouldn´t pay more that 150£.

    Here another abay madness
    POLAND POLISH RARE POLISH RAF OFFICERS CAPBADGE on eBay (end time 15-May-10 19:32:48 BST)

  10. #200

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Yes, £530.00 has to be a record price for one of these. Wow.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

Similar Threads

  1. Polish Exile helmet Eagles

    In Polish Armed Forces in the West (Polskie Siły Zbrojne na Zachodzie) 1939-1947
    08-29-2016, 09:34 PM
  2. Need Help! What are these three polish eagles?

    In Polish Armed Forces in the West (Polskie Siły Zbrojne na Zachodzie) 1939-1947
    01-31-2015, 05:42 PM
  3. Polish eagles

    In Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siły Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939
    08-12-2013, 02:17 AM
  4. Question Pre-WWII Polish Navy Cap Eagles

    In Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siły Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939
    10-05-2012, 12:56 AM
  5. Polish Eagles WWI and WWII

    In Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siły Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939
    09-01-2012, 12:03 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •