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Polish Hat Eagles

Article about: In my opinion this particular cap eagle was made by G.J. Garratt Toronto. Very unique, hard to find.

  1. #2031

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    I will get better pictures - shortly and we can find out more!

    Quote by Tomek View Post
    This eagle is probably casting.

  2. #2032

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    Fellows,
    This is one of my most intriguing research finds - re Eagles.

    I am hoping to research it further! It could be noting - or something!

    When I first looked at pictures - looked just like a simple sketch in a dilapidated frame - however, after closer examination of the lower left corner (take good look!!!) - seems like there is a some sort of sticker / label and stamp at the back (when the corner was lifted - this was later confirmed). Unfortunately, the paper is glued to canvas and it is impossible to separate two materials without the risk of damage!

    Believing or not - sketch is framed in old dilapidated / falling apart frame with old style fastening etc. Purchaser got it at a flea market in Cracow for an equivalent of 3 pounds - the seller kept it in junk bin with things to be thrown away as there has never been interest in it.

    Now - my research mission - will start - when fellows will manage to separate materials and see what the stamp is!

    Any clues?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles  

  3. #2033
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    Probably Spink&Son
    One is matte and has a different hue, the second more shiny
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    Polish Hat Eagles  

  4. #2034

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    Quote by dorava View Post
    . . . I understand both of you can disagree with Tomasz and have your own opinions...that is fine...but obviously it is not so clear. You are entitled to voice your doubts...but I repeat ,you should not be so flipant on assuring things are not good if you do not have it in hand and are 100pct sure
    I am sure both of you will find it hard to appologize, but maybe you take more care next time.
    This discussion really did not need to go any further than Krakow1’s initial post. His side by side image shows the same eagle, with one having undergone a chemical dip to provide the characteristic fake patina.

    I created this new image of your eagle and one currently being sold (BULLION POLISH Senior NCO ARMOUR / TANK VISOR / SIDE CAP BADGE | eBay). There are slight differences in the talons and beak. These variations are to be expected in a manually produced item.

    Closely examine the various types of bullion thread used. The “checkered” thread in the amazon shield, and it’s “loose coil” perimeter thread, along with other areas. The eagle on sale now uses the same bullion thread type as the one you assert is 70+ years old. Anyone who has ever tried restoring any bullion insignia (as I have) knows how difficult this is. Not because the process is difficult, but because of the differences in bullion thread itself. Matching up the metal colour, density of coils, diameter, etc. is just about impossible.

    It is plain to see that they are the same:

    Polish Hat Eagles

    Agreed, Mr. Zawistowski is an expert. But not the only one. He excluded this eagle from his publications for good reason. Again, if and why he changed his mind from what he told Krakow1 I do not know. Although I doubt he did. This apparent about-face will be due to some explainable confusion, which I’ll bring up with him the next time we chat.

    The following are comments obtained from seven knowledgeable collectors, two being respected experts (comments identified). I have provided the translation:

    Tomisław Paciorek:
    • Jaki jest koń każdy znawca widzi. Oba orły wykonano współcześnie.
    (‘what kind of horse’ [this is] everyone with knowledge knows. Both eagles are of modern production.)

    Tomasz Budny:
    • jest to wyrób współczesny . Ja tego orła mam a kupiłem go żeby się upewnić ze jest to swiezy produkt
    (this is a modern product. I have one of these eagles which was purchased to verify that it is indeed modern production)

    From other collectors:
    • Zdecydowanie, znana od kilku lat kopia
    (Definitely, for years a known copy)

    • An obvious fake.

    • Roznica miedzy tymi dwoma zdjeciami to szpony i dziob orzelka. Reszta jest identyczna. Nalozenie bajorka jest rowniez identyczna.
    (The difference between these two is in the talons and the eagle’s beak. The remaining details are identical. The bullion work is also identical)

    • To są repliki wykonane współcześnie gdzieś w Pakistanie
    (these are modern replica’s made in Pakistan)

    • These are outright fakes, fantasies, not copies as there was no such pattern produced during or immediately after WW2.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  5. #2035
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    Now you are accusing me of lying. The only two experts I know always say they will opine only with item in hand. And if you think I was lying you should contact Tomasz and ask him why he thinks its ok. I am no expert and have never claimed I am

  6. #2036

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    A recent pick up to share. The most unusual thing with this one is that it has a ‘factory’ applied hinged-pin fastening, rather than the typical threaded post. The majority of instances where a hinged pin fastening is found on hat eagles it is the result of a conversion from the threaded post once in the possession of the soldier. Another interesting detail it that it appears to be die cast rather than sand cast. The reverse has plenty of detail and the badge is considerably thinner than the typical sand cast eagles produced for the APW throughout the Middle East. The badge is of brass with silver plating, much of which is worn away. Mr. Wadowicznic, who specializes in these eagles, suggests that this one is likely of Syrian origin, produced for the SBSK.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  7. #2037

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    variation on a theme. sterling silver, frosted obverse, fitted with to all intents and purposes an OEM barrel hinge, pin and clasp.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    Last edited by prosty zolnierz; 08-14-2018 at 05:14 PM. Reason: punctuation

  8. #2038

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    Tops!!!!

    Quote by prosty zolnierz View Post
    variation on a theme. sterling silver, frosted obverse, fitted with to all intents and purposes an OEM barrel hinge, pin and clasp.
    - - ------- - -

    Tops!!!!

    Quote by prosty zolnierz View Post
    variation on a theme. sterling silver, frosted obverse, fitted with to all intents and purposes an OEM barrel hinge, pin and clasp.

  9. #2039

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    Fellows,

    Few days ago, I noticed an interesting listing that may help to "ID" this particular rare variant of the small 40mm Eagle (orginally, based on the 1917 pattern). The variant presented on the pictures is similar to a classic 40mm by Guant - but with noticable differences including the fixing arrangements - via vertical blades (we have discussed this before).
    Looking at those side by side pictures - it appears that the blades are identical to a specific variant of Spink's large Eagle.

    Perhaps Spink was the producer of this smaller 40mm variant too?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  

    Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  


  10. #2040
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    Hi Wadowniczic, i saw this auction, hammer price is..too much bidders for this small and classic.


    Couple weeks ago on ebay...

    3 Original WW2 Poland Polish Cap Badges Crowned Eagle | eBay


    I have one this type
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Polish Hat Eagles   Polish Hat Eagles  


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