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Polish Hat Eagles

Article about: In my opinion this particular cap eagle was made by G.J. Garratt Toronto. Very unique, hard to find.

  1. #221

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Thank You for the advice / verification – appreciated.
    Polish Free Navy Eagles – tricky subject as it slooks
    I was a bit worried about this particular example.





    Quote by Gary J View Post
    Yes thats fine , thats the correct pin fixing arrangement. (Tee top pin)

    Gary J.

  2. #222

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Thank You - appreciated.


    Quote by dorava View Post
    perfectly fine typical navy eagle
    and in good condition
    as seen by the blue background behind the anchor being intact......

  3. #223

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Fellows
    May I propose that we discuss the Polish Air Force Eagle – British made.

    This Eagle seems to be relatively popular with a few patterns characterised by small differences
    - Material used
    - Shape of Eagle’s head
    - Endings of wings (right wing)
    - Etc

    Please post details pictures of varioations you have – so we can list out those different Patterns.

    I am posting one from my collection.

    There is also very interesting detail i have learned about this Eagle, the book by Jerzy Murgrabia – Symbole Polskich Sil Zbrojnych na Zachodzie 1939-46 (bellona 1990) on page 23 uses another source – work by Bohdan Krolikowski – Dwa Stulecia Polskiego Orla Wojskowego, Wroclaw 1980 to claim that there has been only c 1000 of those Eagles made in 1940 in the UK from white metal / high 47mm – picture of the Eagle is on page 68 (again one of the Patterns)

    This does not seem to be a reasonable suggestion - but if the information is correct – what is the Pattern of this Eagle that exists in 1000 units – somebody may be seating on a “bar of gold”

    Shall we try to sort out this mystery collectively?
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  4. #224
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Well, one of the PAF "silver" eagles I have owned, was a "workshop" cast type variant.
    These I gather were "workshop" made from Britsh silver coinage (most probably from the pre 1920 coinage when the silver content was of a higher grade.) which were melted down and cast using an official issue badge as the die.

    As to numbers produced in this manner, I have no idea, but the quality of cast was very good.

    Gary J.

  5. #225
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    I will post pictures of mine PAF eagles later on.
    Here is another madness
    WWII Polish Cap Eagle Beret Cockade Badge Brass/SILVER - eBay (item 170487650607 end time May-22-10 16:26:41 PDT)

    I bought mine two weeks ago and now I´m waiting for it

  6. #226

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Yes, quite the result at $455 for this 'Paris 1939' eagle. Here are the pics so we can keep this as a permanent record on this thread.

    Regards,
    T.
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  7. #227

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    It really is incredible to see prices that high.

    In 1940, the Polish Army in France had 82,000 members (if i recall correctly) of this a) 24.000 had been evacuated to UK b) 17.000 retained in Switzerland following collapse of France.
    On relative basis, there must have been a large number of Soldiers recipients this type Eagle.


    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Yes, quite the result at $455 for this 'Paris 1939' eagle. Here are the pics so we can keep this as a permanent record on this thread.

    Regards,
    T.

  8. #228
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Yes, there were many Polish soldiers in France 1940, but you seem to forget one crucial aspect. The questions at hand isn't only how many troops there were or number of badges/eagles made but how many survived the entire war. The next variable is how many items got lost after the war and last but not least, the number of collectors within a certain field.

    Just like you mentioned yourself once. Several thousand para wings were made in comparison to lets say supply unit badges. I think I am not exaggerating if I say there were 10 para wings made for each certain 2nd Corps badge. Yet, the para badges sell for a lot more. Why is that? The obvious reason is the number of collectors interesting in Air Borne units. Since its a very popular field of collecting, Polish para wings are also interesting for collectors from Germany, France, USA and UK. And Polish supply unit badges tend to interest a much smaller group of collectors.

    You have focused to narrowly on only one variable in determining the value of Polish items. You also have missed the emotional attachment to certain units. Why is there a difference in price between equally rare Polish pre war infantry and cavalry badges?

    I hope this was to some help, since I have seen that many of your posts have been very focused, in connection to an items value, on how many examples were made of a certain badge.

    With your logic the first issue of Spider-man or Donald Duck should only cost a few dollars since a lot of them were printed back in the days. Why do the then sell for astronomic amounts? I hope I wasn't to philosophical in this reply

    Cheers,
    J

  9. #229

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Thank You J
    Points well articulated.

    My comments
    One the Market >
    As i perceive it, surly what we are seeing in the market at the moment is a result of supply and demand
    -Supply - very restricted for all the reasons / drivers You have mentioned and we all well understand
    -Demand - growing and fuelled by various factors – from trend of Poles growing richer via emergence of the middle class in Poland, up to vide recognition by foreign collectors

    On My approach>
    Yes, i often ask about numbers produced and value estimates as I like to look at things on relative basis and build arguments and discussions on facts and verifiable foundations. However, i also understand people who prefer discussions based on more “human factors”

    However, the main motivation for trying to understand numbers / patterns / value is my profound desire to “close the knowledge gap i clearly have” despite number of years of interest in the subject

    Unfortunately, many recent publications are only based on pictures (cynics would say - it was quicker to build it an eventually go to the market) rather than spend some time to do fundamental research on regimental archives. Older publications are better on sources / archives but totally poor on pictures and, i guess authors are long gone now.

    Personally, I find this forum much better than looking at the relatively simple / album like books as it is evident to me that a lot of Fellows on this from have done a lot of fundamental research and we all / Hobby benefit from sharing it.

    I would very happily spend a few days at Sikorski Institute looking at the archives – but just no chance to do it at the moment, sadly.
    However, i have collected some source materials / statistics on some badges and i post photographs on the forum on Regimental Badges.



    Quote by 3 DSK View Post
    Yes, there were many Polish soldiers in France 1940, but you seem to forget one crucial aspect. The questions at hand isn't only how many troops there were or number of badges/eagles made but how many survived the entire war. The next variable is how many items got lost after the war and last but not least, the number of collectors within a certain field.

    Just like you mentioned yourself once. Several thousand para wings were made in comparison to lets say supply unit badges. I think I am not exaggerating if I say there were 10 para wings made for each certain 2nd Corps badge. Yet, the para badges sell for a lot more. Why is that? The obvious reason is the number of collectors interesting in Air Borne units. Since its a very popular field of collecting, Polish para wings are also interesting for collectors from Germany, France, USA and UK. And Polish supply unit badges tend to interest a much smaller group of collectors.

    You have focused to narrowly on only one variable in determining the value of Polish items. You also have missed the emotional attachment to certain units. Why is there a difference in price between equally rare Polish pre war infantry and cavalry badges?

    I hope this was to some help, since I have seen that many of your posts have been very focused, in connection to an items value, on how many examples were made of a certain badge.

    With your logic the first issue of Spider-man or Donald Duck should only cost a few dollars since a lot of them were printed back in the days. Why do the then sell for astronomic amounts? I hope I wasn't to philosophical in this reply

    Cheers,
    J

  10. #230

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Is the consensus that $455 was too much to pay for this eagle?
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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