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Polish Hat Eagles

Article about: In my opinion this particular cap eagle was made by G.J. Garratt Toronto. Very unique, hard to find.

  1. #481

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Fellows
    A short message to add some observations re Spink Eagle.

    Hopefully you will find this email relevant as I think it gives the new perspective on the Spink Eagle.




    As all of You know, Spink Eagle is the “Classic of Polish Free Eagles” – simply “must have in each quality collection”.

    I have been trying to research the Spink Eagle (and other Spink’s products) for some time and developed theory that, I think, had been confirmed “externally” tonight.

    I actually think there had been 2 Types of Spink Eagle with some material differences between them (please see the 2 pictures below)
    • Looks like 2 Types of stamps had been used, presumably at different points in time
    • Differences in measurements and shapes of details are especially clearly visible on eagles that are not bended
    • What is even more interesting – the 2 distinctive Types have various types of fastening interchangeably (circles / prongs)

    I personally think that the fact that there had been 2 Types of Spink is a relevant find and worth considering when building quality collection.

    I have a few Spinks in my collection and for some time wanted to see an “external confirmation” of this theory – 2 types had been sold today on the ebay.

    Please share the pictures of your Spinks and perhaps we can catalogue all variations of Types and Fastenings

    Regards
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  2. #482

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Fellows
    Just to link the previous discussion(s) on Spink Eagle and its variations.
    Please see page 32 for the previous posts on the subject + side by side attached
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #483
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Absolutely. But the problem is the scarcity of information. Even with the Spink & Son products, the production records from WW2 supposedly no longer exist. So your insight on this topic is most welcome.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Hi Tony,

    A quick photo I’ve just taken with my mobile phone. Excuse the quality


    The sheet gauge of all Polish hat badges made by Spink is 1 mm. The one you can see in the photo is less than 1 mm. It’s is genuine. I got it from a Polish veteran long time ago. I have another Spink badge with lugs that I got from Szymon Kita in the 80s. Kita was a Polish flyer, and a friend of Stanislaw Skalski. He got the badge shortly upon arival to Great Britain in 1940.

    Indeed, in most cases the production records no longer exist but you can get a lot of information from other sources like literature and contacts with veterans. You are located in Canada so you have a lot of them around. I will get back to this issue later on when I have more spare time.

    For the time being another poor quality photo of my latest purchase. I bet my life you guys know the badges, the one on the left in particular. Have just finished cleaning it. A perfect example of Alavoine production in near mint condition The one on the right is Skarnik&Fiszbein production.


    Talk to you later,

    Pit

  4. #484

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Hi Pit, thanks for your reply.

    Quote by Taurus View Post
    The sheet gauge of all Polish hat badges made by Spink is 1 mm. The one you can see in the photo is less than 1 mm. It’s is genuine.
    It’s worth mentioning that according to eagle expert Tomasz Zawistowski there is some uncertainty that these are actually Spink made eagles. He does positively identify a Spink made eagle in his fine book devoted to the hat eagle badges produced during WW2, yet marks these as being from an unconfirmed maker. See post #432 of this thread, and the two eagles on the bottom left of the group. At your request I’ll take better pictures of these two badges.

    Quote by Taurus View Post
    Indeed, in most cases the production records no longer exist but you can get a lot of information from other sources like literature and contacts with veterans. You are located in Canada so you have a lot of them around.
    That’s the problem – the literature is scant, and the very few veterans alive here in this corner of this vast nation that I have talked to are unable to provide any real useful information on the general topic of uniform insignia. You can bet that I peppered my own late father, a veteran of the 2nd Corps, with all sorts of questions about everything, including insignia. I remember his blunt reply: “Oh, that was so long ago, and what did we care who made the badges and insignia we were given? There were far more important things on our minds at the time, like were we ever going to be able to safely return to our families in Poland!”.
    Quote by Taurus View Post
    Have just finished cleaning it
    never a good idea my friend. While it’s ultimately your choice, I can assure you that I’m not the only one cringing at seeing these gleaming bright shiny eagles! They should really be left alone.

    Regards,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  5. #485

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Fellows
    Just recently sold Guant Eagle
    Very nice and sharp pictures are being added to our gallery!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #486
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    Hi Pit, thanks for your reply.


    It’s worth mentioning that according to eagle expert Tomasz Zawistowski there is some uncertainty that these are actually Spink made eagles. He does positively identify a Spink made eagle in his fine book devoted to the hat eagle badges produced during WW2, yet marks these as being from an unconfirmed maker. See post #432 of this thread, and the two eagles on the bottom left of the group. At your request I’ll take better pictures of these two badges.
    Hi Tony,

    Sure. There’s some uncertainty. The badge is believed to be Spink as no other manufacturer has been identified to date. This may change.
    On Zawistowski’s publication. It’s a helpful reference book but it’s not complete. Zawistowski does not mention variants. I can remember a friend of mine talked to him on a Middle Eastern badge 2 or 3 years ago. See the badge in the photo.
    He was not able to positively identify it. It is not stamped brass plated. It is stamped white metal. The badge comes from a flea market in Iran. Looks to be genuine including the post but nobody is able to positively identify it just because it is not brass

    Attachment 266849

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post

    That’s the problem – the literature is scant, and the very few veterans alive here in this corner of this vast nation that I have talked to are unable to provide any real useful information on the general topic of uniform insignia. You can bet that I peppered my own late father, a veteran of the 2nd Corps, with all sorts of questions about everything, including insignia. I remember his blunt reply: “Oh, that was so long ago, and what did we care who made the badges and insignia we were given? There were far more important things on our minds at the time, like were we ever going to be able to safely return to our families in Poland!”.
    There were veterans of the 2nd Corps in my family too. In many cases they were helpful when I searched for details on uniforms, badges or insignia though in many cases they just did not remember much. One of my uncles, who fought in France in 1940, was a decent source of information while others had less attention to details in the past but still contributed a lot to my knowledge.

    I put together pieces of information from different sources. This is the way you research history. This is how Zawistowski worked on his book.
    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post

    never a good idea my friend. While it’s ultimately your choice, I can assure you that I’m not the only one cringing at seeing these gleaming bright shiny eagles! They should really be left alone.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Well, it is not ultimately one's choice. It all depends on the shape of an object. There are certain rules a serious collector needs to follow when it comes to museum objects.
    There’s a book by Sekowski "Konserwacja broni bialej". There are chapters on restauration, maintenance, repair and a lot of other useful information. This book is a must for a serious collector.

    Have you ever seen dirty badges on display in a museum? I have not. If a hat badge is in perfect shape it should look just like it looked in the past. Same with buttons and/or cold steel.
    Anyway, thanks a lot for your comment on cringing at seeing these gleaming bright shiny eagles No worries. I know what I am doing. I have been following professionals for over 30 years.

    p.s. Tony, 70 years ago you would end up in jail if your hat badge was not bright shiny. This is what I can remember from my childhood when my grandpa talked to me about the Polish Army. He was rotmistrz Edward Markiewicz.


    Regards,

    Pit
    Last edited by Taurus; 11-18-2011 at 09:51 PM.

  7. #487
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    This is how the badge looked when I got it.

    Attachment 266929

    Now, after I have cleaned it with special liquids and tools it looks like a museum object. If you need information on how to handle museum objects you may find it in the book I have mentioned above.

    What people believe, think or like, and what is right is 2 different stories.

    Regrads,

    Pit

  8. #488

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    This one is interesting (material)


    Badge, Cap, Polish Air Force - Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #489
    ?

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Have a look at this please. Another quick photos I have taken with my Nokia phone. The badge comes from a flea-market in Iran. A friend of mine bought it there a few years ago. It's not brass. My guess is that it may be admiralty nickel (CuZn29Ni6) which makes sense but it is just a guess. If I am right this would be a late war production. Nobody has been able to positively identify it to date. The post is original and it is a royal thread. Can you? Thanks.

    Attachment 266981Attachment 266980

  10. #490

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Hi Pit,
    I think you might need to upload the photos via the forum picture upload tools because your links don't work for me... and maybe others too!
    Your post links generate an error message; "Invalid Attachment specified"
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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