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Polish Hat Eagles

Article about: In my opinion this particular cap eagle was made by G.J. Garratt Toronto. Very unique, hard to find.

  1. #501

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Hello again Pit,

    Quote by Taurus View Post
    Honestly, I do not wish to continue this. You may do with your badges whatever you wish to but I need to stick to professional standards to keep my job.
    Sorry to prolong this, but I am enjoying this conversation and hope to gain knowledge from the discussion. I am speaking from the perspective of a collecting enthusiast, not a museum conservator, and I apologize if you have been offended.

    My comments stem from the image provided of your cleaned Skarnick and Fiszbein eagle in post #483. It’s entirely possible that this photograph doesn’t do justice to your work. But the effect in the pictures is not that of a restoration, or as you say ‘the separation of dirt from patina’ but rather a complete stripping resulting in a polished and unnatural surface. The effect is almost as though it was taken to a buffing wheel.

    Far be it for me to tell a professional conservator how to do their work. This is a science unto itself, and I have seen amazing work done with ancient metalwork, shipwreck jewelry and coins, excavated weapons, etc. The badge pictured before cleaning displays what appears to be a substantial amount of surviving original factory oxidizing. My collection consists of upwards of 100 pre-war and PSZ eagles, so I am quite familiar with these eagles in their various states of preservation. And seeing the post-cleaning pictures left me with the impression that your badge had undergone an unnecessarily harsh cleaning.

    I maintain that such aggressive stripping of the surface (and therefore any original factory applied treatments) is in most instances unnecessary and in fact damaging from the standpoint of value. I have seen similar (and in my opinion disastrous) efforts over the years by well meaning but overzealous collectors. See picture below. So my comments are intended to alert collectors to the dangers of embarking on such endeavors carelessly. As such, your recommendation of the Sekowski book is well made.

    Never have I disagreed with a light delicate cleaning if necessary, or - as I have previously stated - the removal of potentially harmful surface pollutants, or encrusted deposits. Obviously the removal of corrosive oxidants is necessary. My point is that the degree of treatment should be proportional to the condition of the badge, in all cases striving to preserve the original surface and patina.



    Shiny is not always better. The appearance of a preserved original surface with honest age and patina is a beautiful thing, at least to me.

    I have successfully removed verdigris from metal using a little bit of lemon juice and salt applied carefully to only the affected area with a toothbrush or Q-tip. I have also used oxalic acid (powder form “Zud”) with good results. The trick is very careful application to only the affected area, and then a thorough rinsing.

    I do commend you on what appears to be a very fine job with the 2DSP eagle. If similar results were achieved with the eagle being discussed then I will humbly refrain from further critique.

    Incidentally, do you have any ‘before’ pictures of the 2DSP eagle?

    Regards,
    Tony

    PS You raise some other points unrelated to cleaning that I will address later. But now it’s time to take care of some Sunday afternoon chores . . .
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  2. #502

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    call me a philistine but I get good results using the following. pics show before and after
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  3. #503

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Driveway cleaner? Seriously?

    What next I wonder?
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  4. #504

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Seriously, is there a truely non-destructive method of removing silver sulfide "black" off silver?
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #505

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    4S, I’m no expert here, and as you know from my prior comments I am not an advocate for the needless cleaning of military badges. But there’s a method that involves tin foil, boiling water and baking soda that creates an electrochemical reaction which converts the silver sulfide / oxide back into silver. This supposedly does not result in any appreciable silver loss such as that which results during polishing which utilizes fine abrasives that accomplish their task using friction.

    Cheers,
    Tony
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  6. #506

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    if you will excuse the pun, time to come clean. no badges came to any harm during the making of the post , two different badges involved , standard Gaunt with prongs , Sterling other. just thought a little sobriety and mirth were in order.

  7. #507

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    tin foil, boiling water and baking soda that creates an electrochemical reaction which converts the silver sulfide / oxide back into silver. This supposedly does not result in any appreciable silver loss such as that which results during polishing which utilizes fine abrasives that accomplish their task using friction.
    This sounds too much like some alchemical process for the transmutation of metals to me so I will leave well alone
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  8. #508

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    . . . so I will leave well alone
    Spoken like the wise man I know you are!

    Cheers,
    T.
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  9. #509

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    what kind of pattern and production could be this eagle? currently on sale, but I'm not too sure this is not a reproduction....
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  10. #510

    Default re: Polish Hat Eagles

    It’s a popular ‘fantasy’ fake that is based on the "Warunki techniczne materiałów wojskowych" publication of the Dep. Intendentury. MsWojsk from 1933, and closely follows the drawing that accompanied that document. Not actually an eagle to be discussed in this thread for exile forces versions, but let’s carry on anyway as this one may be occasionally confused by some as being from the WW2 period.

    The badge you have pictured was never produced prior to WW2 in exactly that pattern. But there was an eagle badge produced with the explicit intention of following the new specifications outlined in the 1933 document. Pictured below, this variant is sometimes called the “Gołąb” type for its pigeon-like appearance.

    Regards,
    Tony
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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

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