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Polish Regimental Badges WW2

Article about: Rare badge from this maker! Thanks for posting this nice clear picture. Regards, Tony

  1. #251
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    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Hi Michalmag! Please check page 187 and 188 for description in II Vol Barwa Pulku 4 Skorpion, written by Marek Wronski. This beret badge is presented top left, however, the photo in his book is of very poor quality and in black and white. I know that copies have been made of these badges and sold on Allegro. But if you compare this one to the fakes offered its easy to spot the difference.

    Cheers,
    Jacek


  2. #252

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by vicjoy1945 View Post
    Interesting ! I hadn't heard that fact. I have pictures of my father that I assume were taken in England during his time with the Polish Resettlement Corp after the war and he is wearing his 3rd DSK badge. However, I could be wrong about the time period of the photos.
    I think it might depend on when the soldiers chose demobilisation into the PRC. For example the 4th Skorpion was still extant until 1947 so regimental uniforms still carried full Polish insignia. Units of 2 Corps arrived back in UK from Italy mid-1946. So your father could well have been in 3 DSK uniform for some time after then?? I believe the only Polish insignia that was allowed to be worn by PRC was the 'POLAND' arm flash and rank insignia. The PRC also had it's own patch but I think this was only worn by the British admin staff and not Poles.

    Quote by vicjoy1945 View Post
    Are the current "Skorpion" badges mutli-piece construction !?! Do the new badges attach the scorpion via rivets and, if so, how many rivets !?! I was under the impression that today's Polish regiments that adopted the WWII badges usually added there own current "flair" to the actual badge re-design.
    You are right that was so in most cases but how can one improve the design of the 4th Skorpion breast badge It was not changed. The 5th is two piece, two metal pin and enamel, again pretty much like the original construction. Even the metal skorpion beret badges of the 5th are identical to the 4th design. They have loops and pin fixing whatever that method is called? I'll try and photograph some examples. Sadly, the 5th 'skorpion' was disbanded in 2001(?) due to NATO restructuring, and all those 'skorpion' stencils onPolish tanks were painted out but fortunatley the old 4th Skorpion colours remained in the Sikorski otherwise I am sure they would be lost at some point in the future. BTW the Sikorski is trying to raise money to conserve the collection of Polish regimental colours in its collection, so if anyone has a few sopare piunds I am sure they would appreciate receiving help

  3. #253

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    I had a pleasure meeting Mr Mieczyslaw Bialkieweicz – for may years the Chairman of the Scorpions’ Association.
    As some of you may know, he himself was a big collector Polish WW2 Artefacts and manufacturer of some of the Badges / Eagles for veterans.

    Just to complete the picture on the Scorpions - the badge of their Sports Club.
    I will also post pictures of a great Album – printed in 1974 in London – Walczace Skorpiony – there had only been 300 printed
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #254

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    This set is just PRICELESS
    How did you acquire it?


    Quote by 3 DSK View Post
    The Scorpion badge is one of my favorites when it comes to insignia used by formations in PSZ/z. I thought that there was only one recognized maker of this badge?! A while ago I read two very intriguing volumes about this unit written by Marek Wronski. Just for fun I have attached photos of some "Skorpion" stuff

  5. #255
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    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    4th Skorpion,
    Thats very interesting !

    It ties in well with the political angle taken by the British government in the early days post WW2.

    Two other factors that "align" with the wearing of regimental badges are :

    1) The well known fact of the Polish Free forces not being "invited" to participate in the official victory parade.

    2) Polish combatants returning to British soil being "advised" not to foster anti soviet debate or discuss personal experiences suffered under the soviet deportations of 1940, ... under the threat of "repatriation" !.

    Gary J.



    [QUOTE=4thskorpion;99922]I believe the Polish resettlement corps were not allowed to wear Polish regimental insignia as the British government did not want it to be seen a quasi-military force so that the Polish Communist regime could not argue it was a 'mercenary' army in all but name.

  6. #256

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by Gary J View Post

    1) The well known fact of the Polish Free forces not being "invited" to participate in the official victory parade.
    Hi Gary,

    This is not strictly accurate. It is a fact that no Polish 'Free' forces were originally invited because they were no longer recognised by HMG as legitimate forces of the Polish government in Warsaw and whose forces were invited to the parade. At that time the Polish 'Free' forces were in a state of legal 'limbo' not recognised by either HMG or Warsaw government. But after political (and some public) support in the media a contingent of the 'exiled' Polish Air Force were invited as part of the RAF representation but NOT as a seperate formation. Quite naturally the PAF felt honour-bound to not take up that invitation without their fellow comrade-in-arms of the Polish Land and Sea forces also being represented. The Polish forces representatives from communist Poland did not turn up despite their invitation. No reason was given, but my hunch is that the Polish communist government did not want to be there in case there were mass-demonstrations at the parade by 'exiled' Polish forces loyal to the recntky derecognised Polish-government-in-exile. Mass-demonstrations would have been acutely embarrasing for the communist government and HMG. It is a great credit to the Poles that they did not stage a vocal demonstration at the parade—afterall they had much to be angry about.

    Quote by Gary J View Post
    2) Polish combatants returning to British soil being "advised" not to foster anti soviet debate or discuss personal experiences suffered under the soviet deportations of 1940, ... under the threat of "repatriation" !.
    I have not heard this before? Maybe it was perception rather than reality? In all the policy documents I have seen HMG made it quite clear to Anders and the Polish exiled-government that there would be no forced repatriations of Poles (unlike the Cossacks) and this was never used as a threat.

    However a few Poles who simply flatly refused to either demobilise into the PRC or elect for repatriation were given deadlines to make a choice (as HMG did not want to spend taxpayers money supporting men who did not want to integrate into the British workplace via the PRC) and if they refused either they were forcibly repatriated but these were much later 1947-8 I believe and amounted to just a handful of men?

  7. #257

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    if they refused either they were forcibly repatriated but these were much later 1947-8 I believe and amounted to just a handful of men?
    I forgot to say these men were not forcibly repartiated communist Poland but to DP camps in the British zone of occupied germany and once there they were left to look out for themsleves.

  8. #258
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    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    and to further clarify..
    I understand it was not the media and the public which forced HMG to invite a small contingent of RAF Polish fliers, but that fellow British airmen refused to participate in the march if the Poles were not included. Fearing a scandal from the media and the public the govt invited some of them, and as you say the Poles naturally refused if the other services were not invited.

    This is just one of the various British acts of betrayal towards the Poles. One of the most incredible ones was that the British govt, after having sold out the Polish govt in exile to the communists, turned around and handed the Polish govt in Exile an inovice for the expense of all the equipment and armament the Polish soldiers fighting UNDER BRITISH COMMAND used in WW2.
    This apparently was paid from the gold the Poles had taken out from Poland in 39. How they took the gold out is another fascinating story.

    The only particpant in WW2 that was always steadfast, always unwavering loyal and honorable from beginning to the end were the Poles.

  9. #259

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by dorava View Post
    and to further clarify..
    I understand it was not the media and the public which forced HMG to invite a small contingent of RAF Polish fliers, but that fellow British airmen refused to participate in the march if the Poles were not included. Fearing a scandal from the media and the public the govt invited some of them, and as you say the Poles naturally refused if the other services were not invited.

    This is just one of the various British acts of betrayal towards the Poles. One of the most incredible ones was that the British govt, after having sold out the Polish govt in exile to the communists, turned around and handed the Polish govt in Exile an inovice for the expense of all the equipment and armament the Polish soldiers fighting UNDER BRITISH COMMAND used in WW2.
    This apparently was paid from the gold the Poles had taken out from Poland in 39. How they took the gold out is another fascinating story.

    The only particpant in WW2 that was always steadfast, always unwavering loyal and honorable from beginning to the end were the Poles.
    Hi dorava, I have looked at HMG archives in Kew regarding the invitation of PAF and must admit I don't recall seeing mention of the RAF threatening to pull out if the Poles were not invited? The archive documents show that PAF were 'reluctantly' invited as HMG felt under intense pressure from some MPs and the media. So HMG felt that the British public still remembered the stirling part Polish pilots and crews played in the Battle of Britain and how PAF servicemen were more integrated into British society with develped relationships with RAF servicemen and locals in the towns and villages surround the airfields in the UK than was the case for most of the major land forces such as 2nd Corps who were out in Italy and the M.E. and so were not so much in public awareness.

    Poland was not asked for all its war loans to be repaid HMG wrote of millions of pounds worth of war credits to the Polish-government-in-exile, and bearing in mind that Britain also had to pay back war loans for all the lend-lease war material sent by US, Britain could not afford to write off all of the Polish loans. By the end of the war Britain was pretty much bankrupted by it. It was only in the early 2000's that US war loans were finally paid back. Just as there is no free lunch there is no free war.

    You are right the story of the Polish gold is a fascinating one! The Polish-governement-in-exile even had to sue the French government to get some of its gold reserves back from French 'safe-keeping' as they seemed to 'forget' they held some of the Polish gold reserves and denied having it in the first place.

    But maybe none of this is appropriate for a thread about Polish Regimental Badges WW —so apologies to all.

  10. #260
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    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Hello Skorpion
    I was told many years ago..the version of some RAF airmen refusing to participate in the parade, by someone very close to the Polish govt in exile. If it did happen that way I would imagine it most likely would not be included in the historical archives. I can imagine, though, that fellow British airmen would have been very upset indeed by this betrayal. Remember there were various Polish airmen who remained in the RAF long after the war was over.

    As for the loans, well since the Poles fought and DIED fighting for the British service, defending England in first place,only to be completely betrayed, it is a scandal that any payment was requested. I think any Pole would have rather Poland ended the war bankrupt but free. Poland paid a far heavier price than England, and personally I think the English govt still owes a formal apology to Poland.

    but as you correctly said...maybe should be another thread..
    unto regimental badges....
    thanks
    D

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