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Polish Regimental Badges WW2

Article about: Rare badge from this maker! Thanks for posting this nice clear picture. Regards, Tony

  1. #641

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Fellows
    Recently sold on Ebay UK – the badge of the 1th Grenadiers’ Division / 4th Infantry thereafter

    A classic - K&S – 1943 / 44 – type without K&S stamp - non combat version

    Although we discussed the Grenadiers’ badge in the past, I think that these pictures are worth posting as they allow to study / see materials the badge is made of.

    I am not sure of the significance of the red “podkladka”. From the book on 4 Infantry division I could not establish it with 100% certainty. There were;
    a) Engineers Troop / Company with red and black collars
    b) 12/13/14 Medical Companies with cherry and blue collars
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  2. #642

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Fellows
    I think may have found something that is interesting to mention.

    Please let me know what you think.

    I would like to come back to the badge of 1 Grenadiers Division.
    Please refer to our excellent debate on pages 31 and 32 of the Forum (pictures used in this post come from those pages)

    Simply, looking at the various documents / books about Poles in French Campaign and the history of 1 Grenadiers Div and 4 Infantry Div + materials about the 1 Grenadiers Brigade - many things did not add up for me.

    • Last night completely by luck – looking my last post above – I actually noticed some marks on the bottom tip of the badge. Immediately I went to compare with a badge of my collection (using magnifying glass that is necessary in this case) and with badges presented on pages 31 – 32 - 33 of this Forum.

    Findings seem to be very interesting.

    Looks like K&S actually marked the badges in 2 ways depending on the time / units badges was minted for.

    • Version minted in 1943 – K&S marks at the back and with two variations - Combat and Non-Combat
    • Version minted in 1945 / 46 – for 1 Grenadiers Brigade – K&S marks at the very bottom tip of the badge (as on the post above and below) – Non-Combat version only

    In addition, and most importantly,
    • The 4 Infantry division was formed on July 6th 1943 and the HQ order establishes the badge on July 2nd
    • My theory is that - the former solders of 1 Grenadiers Divisions who fought in France received the Combat Badge with WIENIEC (like Mariusz Uncle – picture below) and the Others, who did not fight in France, got the Non-Combat Badge without WIENIEC (see Sawicki / wielechowski page 457) – both variations are marked K&S at the back
    • Most importantly – I thinks there has been only c400-450 Combat Badges of 1943 Version. The logic - The book “Order 4444” suggests that only less than 500 of the solders of 1 Grenadiers Divisions reached England via Marsylia in 1940 (5600 KIA or missing + large majority of rest had become POW and went home (a lot of miner who emigrated to France before the war had been in the 1G Div - 75%)). Secondly, the serial number of the ID of Combat Badge 1943 Version that was given to Mariusz’s Uncle is 338 and given his surname started with S - not far from end of the alphabet – the theory about c400-450 badges is further supported
    • In 1945 / 56 – K makes a second Version with the marks at the very bottom of the badge.

    If this logic is correct - it makes the Badges of 1943 Combat (K&S at the back) Version very rare (not even featured in Sawicki / Wielechowski).

    Therefore - Mariusz – congratulations!
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  3. #643
    ?

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    and what about this one that just sold?
    no little markings on the front bottom
    nor on the back
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #644

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by dorava View Post
    and what about this one that just sold?
    no little markings on the front bottom
    nor on the back
    The K&S mark may be there (right at the bottom of reverse side), only in this photo is it cut off and/or obscured by the dark shadow

    T.
    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  5. #645

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Fellows
    I have just found even more interesting / confusing picture(s) of 1 Grenadiers Division - Badge
    Looks like - 1943 - Non Combat Version but with 2 signatures - K&S at the back and K&S on the bottom tip

    Truly interesting
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  6. #646

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    All I know s that Andzej Smakowski wos so proud of his 1 Grenadiers Division – Badge on all of his pictures 1943-1947 he is wearing 1 Grenadiers Division – Badge even when he was in 300 bomber squadron he was wearing 1 Grenadiers Division – Badge. Here is side by side picture and I would have question about badge “just sold”.
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  7. #647

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Fellows
    For the record on our Forum
    The badge of the 12 Podolski Lancers of the 2 Cor – recently sold on Allegro.

    Always nice to see this badge!

    Over years, I have seen this badge a few times in various collections – if I recall correctly – almost all of them had the P&B spinner with “the crack”. I find this interesting as the same “crack” is often seen on 1 PU and 3 PU and 7 PU. However, not on 25 PU

    Has anybody got an ID for the 12 Lancers badge? If yes – please post.
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  8. #648

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    into the shoebox, for the record. the spinner has an extended boss
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  9. #649

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Quote by wadowicznic View Post
    . . . Has anybody got an ID for the 12 Lancers badge? If yes – please post.
    This one sold on Allegro a year or two ago.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    All thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical and/or legal advice.

    "Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday." - John Wayne

  10. #650

    Default Re: Polish Regimetal Badges WW2

    Fellows
    I am not 100% sure if You would like the idea but i will try to propose it

    I have noticed that we have a number of excellent posts that relate to the Polish Para Badg(s) on various pages in the Forum – Including on this Section.
    Some post are truly excellent pointing to the very interesting features of the Badge / History of SBS etc.

    However, the problem is that the knowledge has been fragmented and located on various pages – which I guess makes interpretation / learning difficult for people – especially collectors who recently started on the subject of Polish Badges

    Therefore, I am wondering, if it would be a good idea to implement one of the alternatives below to establish the (using fashionable language of my colleagues from Global Marketing Department)- “one stop shop on Polish Para Badge(s)”

    Alternatives are
    a) Bring all the post on Para Badges on this Section of the Forum (Polish Regimental Badges)
    b) Perhaps it is even better for each of us to spend 2-3 days posting “personal knowledge / pictures etc” on the subject on this Section
    c) Create new Discussion – fully dedicated to Para Badge(s)

    Personally – i am finding alternative b) – most fun, most constructive

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