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Home Army pictures!

Article about: Sorry Emil, but need to disagree with you. I haven't heard about any specific signs of respect to Warsaw Uprising soldiers from German side. Slaughtering and mass executions of insurgents we

  1. #61

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Quote by A.J. Zawadzki View Post
    But history will still judge both Roosevelt and Churchill for turning their backs on their staunch Polish allies in the most disgusting manner. For this they can be solely held responsible for.
    Regards,
    T
    Hi Tony, I would have to respectfully disagree, in the most part, as this does not take into account the abject failures on the part of the Polish government-in-exile in the handling of Polish affairs. IMO much of what eventually became the fate of Poland can be laid at the door of this totally disunited government that was constantly involved with factional infighting especially after Sikorski's death. And in the Polish homeland, is it not so that by war's end (if not long before) many of those in Poland believed the government-in-exile, based thousands of mile away in London, had totally lost touch with their views and the reality of the situation on the ground in Poland? It was certainly true that those in the NSZ and other groups did not see a role for the the London government-in-exile returning back to Poland en masse after the war to take up the reigns of power and would actively resist the imposition of the 'London' government?

  2. #62

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Some photos from the Rising—Varsovians being led out if the city and AK units and marching proudly out of Warsaw:
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Skorpion, do you know who made these pictures showing insurgent troops leaving Warsaw? I have perhaps 20 original pictures from this march ( I guess I can recognize some people being the same on mine and your pictures)
    Rgds
    Al

  4. #64

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Quote by mr dogtag View Post
    Skorpion, do you know who made these pictures showing insurgent troops leaving Warsaw? I have perhaps 20 original pictures from this march ( I guess I can recognize some people being the same on mine and your pictures)
    Rgds
    Al
    Hi Alex,

    The first two capitulation photos general Stefan 'Starba' Baluk showed me in one of his albums when I visited his home in Warsaw—but I do not believe he was the photographer.

    The third of civilians marching out was taken by a German soldier.

    I am pretty sure that the this is zgroup "GURT" or at least part of the group as this man (see attached) is featured briefly in Nazi film of the Rising capitualtion dropping a pistol into a large basket. He is definitley a soldier of "GURT" as his son contacted me from the US on behalf of his father to see if I had anymore in my collection. Would like to see some scans to compare when you have time
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    Hi Tony, I would have to respectfully disagree, in the most part, as this does not take into account the abject failures on the part of the Polish government-in-exile in the handling of Polish affairs. IMO much of what eventually became the fate of Poland can be laid at the door of this totally disunited government that was constantly involved with factional infighting especially after Sikorski's death. And in the Polish homeland, is it not so that by war's end (if not long before) many of those in Poland believed the government-in-exile, based thousands of mile away in London, had totally lost touch with their views and the reality of the situation on the ground in Poland? It was certainly true that those in the NSZ and other groups did not see a role for the the London government-in-exile returning back to Poland en masse after the war to take up the reigns of power and would actively resist the imposition of the 'London' government?
    Many of those in Poland believed the government-in-exile, based thousands of miles away in London, and had totally lost touch with their views and the reality of the situation on the ground in Poland?

    Could I know where did you get your statistics from? “many of those in Poland believed the government-in-exile, based thousands of mile away in London, had totally lost touch with their views and the reality of the situation on the ground in Poland?” and I would like to know what is the % of many?
    In my opinion many=Stalin. As fare as I know British and most of the world recognize government-in-exile as rightful polish government which had all the ministries, ambassadors … had gold, witch was given by our Alice to socialist government in Poland. I wonder how they filled. Did they fill betray by British, and Americans?
    I`m posting same scans from calendars with addresses of polish government-in-exile which was acknowledge in 1945. I wonder what wrong they did in 1945? It was sane government in1945, 1944, 1943, 1942, 1941, 1940, 1939. Government that took praises for what did brave solders on betel fields in 1940 Battle of Britain, and let’s says Mont Casino.
    To me Question of Honor cane to my mind. It is my opinion and I don’t wan to pose it on any one. I think polish solders, officers, government-in-exile, and polish citizens where betray by Roosevelt, and British government. And what made worst they never demitted for betraying Poland in 1939, and later on when they got help from US, suddenly Briton did not need Poland, what’s more they stood agents British friends Russians and Stalin.
    Mariusz

  6. #66

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    government-in-exile addresses
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  7. #67

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    More Warsaw Uprising pictures
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  8. #68

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    ,
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Hi 4thskorpion,

    Sorry to get back to this so late. Holidays are over and the luxury of spare time has largely evaporated . . .

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    . . . the abject failures on the part of the Polish government-in-exile in the handling of Polish affairs. IMO much of what eventually became the fate of Poland can be laid at the door of this totally disunited government that was constantly involved with factional infighting especially after Sikorski's death. . . .
    The discord within the Polish exile government was not out of the ordinary in a government body based on democratic principles and composed of varying political bents. Different points of view are the norm, as is the resultant friction. I do agree that this was not as effectively suppressed as when Sikorski held the reigns, which was unfortunate. The sharp Soviet propagandists seized on this and played it up in their relentless work at breaking down the Polish camp in the eyes of the Allies.

    But this is all a side issue and of no real consequence in the big picture. And as I stated previously, Poland’s future was a fait accompli - sealed in 1941 with Stalin’s entry into the Allied camp. It was further locked in behind closed doors at Teheran and Yalta, without the participation or consent of Poland. I disagree that the Polish government was totally incompetent and that the blame for Poland’s fate rests with them. There was nothing the London Poles could do to alter the course that was being steered for them.

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    And in the Polish homeland, is it not so that by war's end (if not long before) many of those in Poland believed the government-in-exile, based thousands of mile away in London, had totally lost touch with their views and the reality of the situation on the ground in Poland?
    Again, very much disagree. This matter is well addressed in many sources including Bor-Komorowski in “The Secret Army”, and needless to say, he can be safely considered a reliable commentator on the actual state of affairs. The London based government was completely aware of the situation in Poland. They were at all times in close contact with the AK command, and a steady stream of consistently high quality and useful intelligence was flowing into London. The AK itself obviously had the support of the Polish population, if not just for the simple fact that a large part of the Polish population was directly involved in Europe’s largest, best organized and most effective resistance.

    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    It was certainly true that those in the NSZ and other groups did not see a role for the the London government-in-exile returning back to Poland en masse after the war to take up the reigns of power and would actively resist the imposition of the 'London' government?
    As far as the fringe resistance movements that refused to assimilate with the AK, there’s no doubt there would be some objection to the London government being transferred to Warsaw. But the force of these objections would be commensurate with the size of these units, that is to say just about negligible.

    The Polish government-in-exile was recognized by the Allies as the legitimate representative of the Polish people. I maintain my position that the manner in which this legal government was shoved aside by their fellow allies in favour of Stalin’s communist puppets was not only unjustified, but an obscene betrayal.

    Regards,
    Tony

    PS recommended reading:
    The Rape of Poland - Mikolajczyk
    I Saw Poland Betrayed - Lane

  10. #70

    Default Re: Home Army pictures!

    Guys, if I may give one small example of what I meant; this is in relation to Poland's national border issue.

    Churchill did in fact make clearly known to the Polish government-in-exile what Britain's position was in realtion to the issue of Polnd's post-war borders. In line with the decisions taken at Tehran, the British Government put pressure on the Polish Government to accept the 'Curzon' Line as a basis for negotiations, while also intimating that Poland would be enlarged in the west. Churchill made it clear to Polish prime minister Mikołajczyk and Romer on the 20th of January 1944 that there was no question of Britain or the United States going to war over the issue of Poland’s eastern border.

    So how is it possible to construe (which many do) that the Polish government-in-exile was in ignorance of the post-war Polish border issue and what the western allies would do or not do to support any Polish government position?

    How was it a surprise to the Polish government-in-exile that discussions about post-war Polish national borders would be roughly along the so-called 'Curzon' line in the East and the 'Oder-Niesse' line in the west? This is exactly what Sikorski proposed sometime before his untimely death— the Oder-Neisse line was one of Sikorski's desiderata, not a Communist or British or US invention! Why is this is nearly always overlooked or ignored!

    Such were the divisions in the Polish government-in-exile over any dealings at all with the Soviets that Deputy Commander in Chief Polish Armed Forces gen. Sosnkowski resigned from his government post in disgust after the Sikorski - Maisky was signed, and he never saw eye-to-eye with Prime Minister Stanislaw Mikolajczyk on the strategy of the planned general uprising in Poland and the uprising in Warsaw or other matters that required unity of thought and action despite them being the two most senior figures in the Polish state and armed forces!

    * * * * * *

    While I obviously have the utmost respect for men such as gen. 'Bor' Komorowski, the fact that he seriously requested that the Polish parachute brigade be flown to Poland and dropped into Warsaw beggars belief!

    Did he really believe it was possible? Did his government in London or his C-inC not tell him the only plane possible to fly the distance (irrespective of the Allies not having 100% control of the air-space on route) was a specially lightened American Liberator with exhaust silencers and extended range fuel tanks that could (as the SOE had done for cichociemni missions) carry light stores and ammunition for only one days fighting—it has been calculated (see Garlinski: SOE Poland and the Allies) that it would have taken 265 such specially adapted Liberators to air lift a brigade strength unit! Where did Komorowski think these planes would come from? The SOE only had access to maximum of twenty such planes for all of its operations in Western Europe. How did Komorowski think the Allies (or the Poles) would secure the landing areas around Warsaw which were still in the hands of the Germans who would have cut decesnding parachutists to ribbons as were to do at the Battle of Arnhem?

    I make no claim to be any kind of expert or historian but Poland's fate was not determined by the US and Britain alone—the Polish leadership IMO based on my limited reading also bears some responsiblity for the consequences of its own failings.

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