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Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

Article about: by dastier PPsh 41 in use during the Warsaw Uprising. Where would AK battle group "GURT" have sourced these Russian weapons? During the Rising or earlier from Russian partisan grou

  1. #61

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Quote by Itakdalej View Post
    Hardly worn..... Any provenance?

    - - Updated - -

    Have You tried the blacklight on it ? Or did you check the threads to see if they are synthetic?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From the above image the sweat band does in fact show considerable wear with splits, fraying and staining from use. What is not visible in my shots is the peak inner support which I think must be some type of fibre board (?) is also split from wear and the outer cloth is soiled and stainedóbut you are right not overly so and you are right to be cautious, but it is actually more worn than my photos show in strong sunlight when I took these photos earlier today. The thread is cotton throughout not synthetic and my source a fellow AK collector in Warsaw I have known (and trust) for years.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    First of all the Flag: the wear on it is not consistent with the hat.
    The splits in the hat band: hat band is too clean.... no sweat stains...
    How can you say it is a "Rising" hat ?
    I see a german looks like Luftwaffe hat with Polish insignia added .. when?
    My grandmother used cotton thread at our home in Poland until late 70's.

    Also, Warsaw is and has been a Capital of Military counterfitters, so in my book something from Warsaw is not really a good recommendation.
    And they have been faking things for a long time.... way before anyone on this forum started collecting.
    So many movies were made in the 1950's, 60', 70', 80' with actors wearing similar hats.....
    It is very difficult to tell if this was made in 1950' or 1960', or when?

  3. #63

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Quote by Itakdalej View Post
    First of all the Flag: the wear on it is not consistent with the hat.
    The splits in the hat band: hat band is too clean.... no sweat stains...
    How can you say it is a "Rising" hat ?
    I see a german looks like Luftwaffe hat with Polish insignia added .. when?
    My grandmother used cotton thread at our home in Poland until late 70's.

    Also, Warsaw is and has been a Capital of Military counterfitters, so in my book something from Warsaw is not really a good recommendation.
    And they have been faking things for a long time.... way before anyone on this forum started collecting.
    So many movies were made in the 1950's, 60', 70', 80' with actors wearing similar hats.....
    It is very difficult to tell if this was made in 1950' or 1960', or when?
    Unfortunately you only have my photos on which to base your judgement, whereas I have the actual cap in hand and I can only repeat what I have already said about its condition overall which is not fully apparent in my photos.

    Quote by Itakdalej View Post
    It is very difficult to tell if this was made in 1950' or 1960', or when?
    It is as you say very, very difficult
    Last edited by StefanM; 09-22-2012 at 11:20 AM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Hi Emil, A few more photographs

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    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Interesting, in most photos you see what you'd expect the Poles to be armed with... Stens, a Bren, Polish and German mausers.

    But in that third photo, the soldier on the left has a Finnish Suomi M31 SMG!

    Dang! Now I'm going to have to get one for my display.
    Last edited by dastier; 09-23-2012 at 01:19 PM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    There is also Browning Hi Power pistol stuck in the belt of the soldier on the right in the third photo. And possibly a PPSh-41 or else another Suomi in the second photo on the far left.

    Plus you can just make out a Suomi by the stock and receiver in the last one. (right side)

    I'm a bit surprised by the Suomi but it makes sense as it used 9mm ammo.

  7. #67
    ?

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Might be a GP35......, if its not a RADOM?
    GP for the prounounced bump of the rear strap, which RADOM does not have to the same degree.
    Both would be perfectly plausible considering the circumstances. Poland being the country of origin of the RADOM and most likely the prescence of GPs in Poland due to German soldiers carrying these and having them liberated by Poles.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    I agree. Its a Hi Power (GP 35) not a Radom due to the shape of the pistol grip. Probably taken off a dead German soldier or stolen/traded.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    In the fifth photo, the second from the right Polish soldier kneeling might also have a Suomi but its hard to tell. It could be a Bergmann. I noted that in the fifth photo one of the Poles has a German MP38/40 magazine pouch but not a MP38/40 SMG. So again could be a Suomi or a Bergmann.

    Would need Stefan to look at this photo with a loupe and give us an opinion.

    That the Poles used Suomi M31 SMGs is news to me. Anyone have more info?

  10. #70
    ?

    Default Re: Uniforms and Insignia of the Polish Underground State

    Yes, very interesting SMGs.

    About the pistol; difficult to argue against the GP as it has no grip safety, where as the RADOM does have one. The shape of the bump on the rear strap (pronounced bottom half of the well for the staggered double coloumn mag) fits the GP better as opposed to the projecting grip safety on the upper half of the RADOM rear strap and no bottom half bump due to the construction of the well for the single stack mag of the VIS.

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