Struck in the back of the head

**Adrian Stevenson** · 04-24-2009, 12:31 PM

Hi Paul, I had not even noticed the date of 1940.

Good point.

Cheers, Ade.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-24-2009 12:31 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

Dick · 04-24-2009, 02:22 PM

I never said that the this Frenchman flew over here with just this marker. He had some other things that other collecters that knew the difference gobbled up real fast.
All that have seen this cross first hand doesn't question it anymore than I do.
Any soldier away from his unit or division in those days especially, was subject to be re assigned to where he was needed in a hurry, that we know from the dif. units represented in rhe POW camps in the West. Unit and divisional assigments were not unknown to be changed, for many reasons. That's why I am looking to get his records if possible.
ADE, please send me your email address, and I'll send you some pictuers I don't want published.

**Paul D** · 04-24-2009, 06:01 PM

Dick,

The bottom line with this is that Wiking were always in the East and never fought in the West !! This was due to the Foreign volunteer contingent in the Divison , it was the same in Nordland and Nederland the German hierachy didn't want the Foreign volunteers comprimised by fighting in their own countries

Even if he had been in Wiking and transferred to a unit that fought in Normandy , his grave marker would have shown the unit he was with in Normandy , not one he served with before. If he had been serving with 1 / SS Pz Nachrichten Abt 12 for example that's what would be on the grave marker.

I have never seen as SS marker with the iron cross where it has the date 1940 on it , quite a mistake by whoever made it !!

For me this isn't an original piece

regards

Paul

**Paul D** · 04-24-2009, 06:09 PM

Interestingly by 24/8/1944 the German forces that had escaped from ther Falaise pocket were in the process of Crossing the Seine River whcih is not in the Normandy battel area including the Survivors of the SS Divisons who had fought in Normandy.

**John Brandon** · 04-24-2009, 06:24 PM

Here's the one I was offered on Sunday. Although real (I believe) it gave me the creeps. But hindsight is a wonderful thing, and i should have got it, even though the last one I owned brought me bad luck

**zwerge** · 04-24-2009, 06:30 PM

The last cross shown also has a 1940 date ?

**Paul D** · 04-24-2009, 06:33 PM

This one has the 1940 date on the cross but he was killed in 1940, this one looks better , John there was no 103 ID , have you any info in Arty Regt 103 i can't find any.

I think i may have siome photos still of the one i was offered a couple of years ago i'll try and dig them out.

Dick · 04-24-2009, 06:34 PM

Wrong, the dog tags he was most likely wearing, are what they normaly went by,. They were not, and could not replace those dog tags every time that battle orders changed. They did change the deployment paper work orders fast.
Never say never, especially when you don't have all the required hands on time spent with this item.
I, and all the other experienced collectors that have actually handled this item, like it.
Why it says 1940, we don't know, yet! It was not painted on, it is cut into the wood. It may also be a grave number, and not a date, and that is the best assumption we have been looking at.
Since I am not in Germany, and don't have easy access to the gov't records, I was hoping some one over there might do a bit of real research on this man, instead of some premature nay saying. I am now thinking that I got this about 20 years ago, instead of 15.

**John Brandon** · 04-24-2009, 06:43 PM

Dick, which marker are we talking about? Army or the SS one? I'm confused??

But I have handled a few, and the one I posted is bang on, without doubt, it is a cracking piece, Paul. I have some research discs, when i get 5 mins I'll have a look, been so busy this week, don't know if my head is the the air or up my ****

**Paul D** · 04-24-2009, 06:53 PM

Dick,

I beg to differ the details on the Erkenungsmarke were not the details that went onto grave markers , they were the details of the unit he was killed with.
Yes a man would keep his original erkennungsmarke with him throughout his service and these details would be entered in his Soldbuch/Wehrpass and Stammkarte but Have you ever seen a grave marker with Erkennungsmarke details on instead of his unit ??

I am saying nay because the evidence doesn't stack up for this piece in my opinion. If you can give me an explanation as to why it has 1940 on it when he was killed in 1944 and why it says SS NEA 5 which was a training unit and was not one that was in combat for any reason at this time and certainly not in Normandy then i am always open to learn.

regards

Paul