Re: Origins of the Sturmabteilung Buckle
A remarkable thread and I for one need some time to read several times and in order to fully digest and hopefully, fully understand and contribute to.
I am confident that not one forum member would and as you tongue in cheek suggest, criticise your thoughts and guesses, however please allow others a similar indulgence. My thoughts are that rational, plausible and balanced comments, opinions and views even without any supporting documentation are often the life blood of an interesting and ever evolving thread, as hopefully this one will be.
Here is a verbatim extract from one of my threads dating from September 2009 and which adds little, although may be of complimentary interest. The glaring caveat of "...just a few subjective, personal and non substantiated comments...".
By the way I hold an example of a D & S marked, "full face" swastika buckle that you have mentioned and please let me know if you would like some images.
"...just a few subjective, personal and non substantiated comments about the SA buckle, to include the "upright" swastika type.
It is very interesting to note that for such a commonly encountered, well known and relatively low value buckle, the SA remains something of an enigma. In fact the SA buckle has for many years been regarded as falling within the lower end of the collecting desirability spectrum and whilst all the while, harbouring many potentially interesting and yet to be discovered secrets.
When I say SA buckle, I am of course referring to the box type and which displays either a separately affixed or integral roundel.
In my opinion, no one knows when the first SA buckle was worn or was ceased to be worn. It is obvious though to most collectors and devotees of the RZM that on occasions, the SA buckle displays a RZM related mark or logo and as such, this presence provides a tantalisingly glimpse of a small time frame for a a later period of manufacture and wear.
Consider that in the 1920's, many German companies of differing sizes were struggling to survive and to include those concerns manufacturing belt buckles etc. This turbulent decade provided a new opportunity for these companies who were quite happy to manufacture side by side, right wing and left wing buckles. In addition, there were companies who manufactured the buckle complete and those, working as a "cottage industry". The latter would die stamp or buy in the various design roundels and on numerous occasions, cannibalise and convert a once Imperial buckle. We see on many occasions, an SA buckle which has the "shadow" of a former roundel present and of course, messy soldering.
The SA buckle was heavily commercially driven. In my opinion, there is no other reason for the hundreds of different roundel designs and which were there, simply to attract the SA member.
To my knowledge, there is no documented evidence to prove that the nickle or chrome on brass SA buckle was the prerogative of the NSKK or any other organisation. Instead, it was all again commercially motivated. If an SA member had a uniform with brass buttons etc., then it would be natural to choose a brass buckle. Conversely, if an SA member wore a uniform with nickle silver buttons etc., then a white metal buckle would be the obvious and in simpatico choice.
In my opinion, there is no significance whatsoever as to the style of swastika and the "mobile", "sun-wheel" and "upright" were all worn simultaneously. Again and again, the design of the eagle and the swastika being there as a commercial feature to persuade the SA member to buy.
I think that the "upright" swastika SA was introduced at a later rather than earlier period and I find it most puzzling why we never see very early period SA buckles with such a swastika. In addition, all the "upright" swastika SA buckles that I have ever seen appear to have exactly the same style of eagle and swastika, being produced by the same manufacturer!
The "upright" swastika SA buckle is well documented, although I do not think that the all brass version is as rare as some persons think.
The final and potentially contentious issue is that the "upright" swastika SA buckle was manufactured exclusively by Overhoff und Cie for a very short period, although passed on for sale to other manufacturers and distributors, to include Assmann. The Overhoff production was however abruptly halted when they became involved in the immensely lucrative manufacturing of another buckle with a possibly conflicting "upright" swastika - the SS..."
11-13-2011 02:21 PM
Re: Origins of the Sturmabteilung Buckle
thanks David. I have read it and will read it all over again.
Some interesting facts of course you telling about. Will we ever know
what has happened when not even former manufacturer's do not
When I showed my "horizontal" swastika SA-buckle to them they noted simply
"it must have been manufacturerd by Assmann, as we did not make them".
The same answer came when I showed them a buckle with their markings,
along with the markings from Assmann. They could not give any proper
answer too this fact. They mentioned not to have cooperated with Assmann.
So, one can be confused by answers given. And many question I asked about
were answered by them. This and many other reasons (for example the gold
anodizing of buckles) caused that I stopped collecting buckles.
In my thread/post I only did refer (except for the Bandau buckle) from
"Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916