Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31

SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

Article about: Kirby Thankyou for adding to this particular SA data base and of course, welcome to the forum. Regards, David

  1. #11

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    My all brass one is on page 4. If you would like to transfer it onto here please do. John.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Ben Evans; 09-25-2009 at 08:16 AM.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    My apologies for the late response to this thread and my further apologies that for the immediate moment, I do not have the time to post more SA buckles. The threads have not been forgotten.

    Just a few subjective, personal and non substantiated comments about the SA buckle, to include the "upright" swastika type.

    It is very interesting to note that for such a commonly encountered, well known and relatively low value buckle, the SA remains something of an enigma. In fact the SA buckle has for many years been regarded as falling within the lower end of the collecting desirability spectrum and whilst all the while, harbouring many potentially interesting and yet to be discovered secrets.

    When I say SA buckle, I am of course referring to the box type and which displays either a separately affixed or integral roundel.

    In my opinion, no one knows when the first SA buckle was worn or was ceased to be worn. It is obvious though to most collectors and devotees of the RZM that on occasions, the SA buckle displays a RZM related mark or logo and as such, this presence provides a tantalisingly glimpse of a small time frame for a a later period of manufacture and wear.

    Consider that in the 1920's, many German companies of differing sizes were struggling to survive and to include those concerns manufacturing belt buckles etc. This turbulent decade provided a new opportunity for these companies who were quite happy to manufacture side by side, right wing and left wing buckles. In addition, there were companies who manufactured the buckle complete and those, working as a "cottage industry". The latter would die stamp or buy in the various design roundels and on numerous occasions, cannibalise and convert a once Imperial buckle. We see on many occasions, an SA buckle which has the "shadow" of a former roundel present and of course, messy soldering.

    The SA buckle was heavily commercially driven. In my opinion, there is no other reason for the hundreds of different roundel designs and which were there, simply to attract the SA member.

    To my knowledge, there is no documented evidence to prove that the nickle or chrome on brass SA buckle was the prerogative of the NSKK or any other organisation. Instead, it was all again commercially motivated. If an SA member had a uniform with brass buttons etc., then it would be natural to choose a brass buckle. Conversely, if an SA member wore a uniform with nickle silver buttons etc., then a white metal buckle would be the obvious and in simpatico choice.

    In my opinion, there is no significance whatsoever as to the style of swastika and the "mobile", "sun-wheel" and "upright" were all worn simultaneously. Again and again, the design of the eagle and the swastika being there as a commercial feature to persuade the SA member to buy.

    I think that the "upright" swastika SA was introduced at a later rather than earlier period and I find it most puzzling why we never see very early period SA buckles with such a swastika. In addition, all the "upright" swastika SA buckles that I have ever seen appear to have exactly the same style of eagle and swastika, being produced by the same manufacturer!

    The "upright" swastika SA buckle is well documented, although I do not think that the all brass version is as rare as some persons think.

    The final and potentially contentious issue is that the "upright" swastika SA buckle was manufactured exclusively by Overhoff und Cie for a very short period, although passed on for sale to other manufacturers and distributors, to include Assmann. The Overhoff production was however abruptly halted when they became involved in the immensely lucrative manufacturing of another buckle with a possibly conflicting "upright" swastika - the SS.

    Regards,

    David

  4. #13
    ?

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    Further to David's point (just one of many excellent arguments of his about the SA buckle) that it is very unlikely there was a chronology to the type of swastika, here is a drawing from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM", the RZM's official periodic organ, of 1934, showing "the" SA buckle, described as defunct at that date.

    Best regards,
    Karl
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA_1.jpg 
Views:	188 
Size:	183.8 KB 
ID:	57063  

  5. #14

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    Very cool to see Karl! I'd love to get my hands on that periodic! Cool!

    Rob

  6. #15

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    Karl

    Thankyou for the most interesting response and for posting the 1934 illustration of the then, "obsolete" SA buckle. Perhaps worthy of note is that the RZM chose to illustrate their rendition of the upright swastika SA. Why ? The artist made a reasonably good job, although the upper wing detail is horribly wrong.

    Anyway, why do you think that we never see any "early" SA buckles displaying an upright swastika. Two of mine for goodness sake are RZM marked.

    Here is a brace of potentially key questions.

    Does anybody have any solid and indisputable evidence as to when (a) the SA buckle was first worn and (b), the SS buckle was first worn ? There may be a correlation here as to why we never see any early period SA buckles with an upright swastika.

    Regards,

    David
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA.jpg 
Views:	98 
Size:	240.1 KB 
ID:	57811  

  7. #16

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    2 meiner Sammlung
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA Liegend 006.jpg 
Views:	274 
Size:	255.0 KB 
ID:	71752   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA Liegend 007.jpg 
Views:	105 
Size:	246.0 KB 
ID:	71757  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA Liegend 008.jpg 
Views:	89 
Size:	237.4 KB 
ID:	71761   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SA Liegend 009.JPG 
Views:	76 
Size:	162.4 KB 
ID:	71763  


  8. #17

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    Vielen Dank für das Bild Deiner wirklich beeindruckenden Sammlung, K71 ! Bis bald mal - Thomas
    -
    Thanks for showing you impressive collection, catch ya later T.

  9. #18

    Default SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    Assmann (again) with an interesting, inner wall set of stampings.

    Regards,

    David
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.JPG 
Views:	69 
Size:	181.0 KB 
ID:	89210   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2.JPG 
Views:	69 
Size:	169.5 KB 
ID:	89211  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3.JPG 
Views:	70 
Size:	189.0 KB 
ID:	89212   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4.JPG 
Views:	91 
Size:	157.4 KB 
ID:	89213  

    Last edited by David North; 03-13-2010 at 07:10 AM.

  10. #19

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    What a beautiful version...I really appreciate you sharing this one with us. I've never seen one marked in that area either. The different variations are really beginning to stoke my interest, and I'm considering changing my focus and collecting SA variant buckles until I have a representative collection. Thank you again brother! In my opinion, This is what it's all about and this forum is just such a blessing for seasoned collectors and most certainly for beginners.

  11. #20
    ?

    Default Re: SA Buckles (Brass and Nickel) Upright Swastika

    A few more
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 168.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	155.1 KB 
ID:	103231   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 177.jpg 
Views:	68 
Size:	144.0 KB 
ID:	103232  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 458.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	140.7 KB 
ID:	103233   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 459.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	141.4 KB 
ID:	103234  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 460.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	149.3 KB 
ID:	103235   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	collection2010 461.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	147.9 KB 
ID:	103236  


Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •