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SA with makers label

Article about: Hello all, i want show one of my buckles with marker label . Here it is a nickelsilver Overhoff . On the label it is Mess-vern . This means brass , nickel platet ! But the buckle is steel co

  1. #11

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    Quote by Wewelsburg View Post
    But we all agree that the second is a von Hagen, because of the ears?
    What on earth are "von Hagen" ears?

    Always willing to learn from the Forum.

    Look forward to hearing from the author of post number 10.



    Regards and best wishes,

    David

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  3. #12

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    Quote by David North View Post
    What on earth are "von Hagen" ears?

    Always willing to learn from the Forum.

    Look forward to hearing from the author of post number 10.

    Regards and best wishes,

    David
    Haha It was obvious to me, but now I wonder if I'm just a moron.

    I compared the ears on the SA in this thread to other Hagens, for example in the RZM 33 thread and to me, they are the same and very characteristic. I thought that was everyones opinion
    RZM 33----- the mystery

    / Kenny

  4. #13

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    Quote by Wewelsburg View Post
    Haha It was obvious to me, but now I wonder if I'm just a moron.
    Dear Kenny

    Whilst I am painfully aware that my contributions to the Forum are now extremely limited, I thought that your recent comments were worthy of a courtesy response.

    We cannot guarantee many things in life, however two that I can is (1) you are definitely not a moron and (2), you are on a learning curve via the Forum, with regards to SA buckles.

    Consider and irrespective of what the reference works state, that no one and to my knowledge at least, is 100% sure as to when the SA buckle was first worn. The NSDAP to include the overt display of uniforms was banned following the 1923 debacle in Munich, with a reemergence in early 1925. It is my opinion that 1925 is the key year for the reorganisation of the SA, embracing an element of standardisation to the uniform, to include the wearing of a buckle.

    We are aware of a period catalogue by Paul Arendt within a private collection, which is titled "Preisliste 1926". There is within, a clear line drawn illustration of an SA buckle. Having said that, there is also a "Frontbann" badge, however that is another story!

    So, assuming that the SA buckle was freely available for purchase and wear in 1926, it suggests an extensive period of ad hoc production and there was in theory, a potential customer base of some 3 millions.

    The point that I wish to make is that in my opinion, SA buckle production for many years was unregulated and prolific. At one point when I was collecting "regular" SA buckles, I had nearly 300 totally different examples by design, finish, construction et al.

    This has been said before and I am sure it will be said again. It is in my opinion, extremely dangerous for any SA buckle collector to be influenced with the hysteria and hyperbole surrounding that labour in vain of looking for a definitive makers "signature" by say details of construction.

    In the mid to late 1920's, many artisans were leading a hand to mouth existence and the political turmoil at the time offered them a lucrative opportunity to manufacture badges, emblems, accoutrements and the like to include buckles, whether for a right wing, a left wing or whatever group or organisation. This was a commercial enterprise undertaken by thousands, whether it be within a bone fide factory or on the kitchen table within your slum dwelling.

    This so called cottage industry was and in my opinion multi layered insofar as persons cannibalised and reused Imperial boxes, whilst others manufactured component parts and sold them on to whoever was willing to pay the price. Boxes, roundels, pin shrouds, pins and claws could be manufactured and assembled independently from each other, rather than leaving a factory complete, pleasantly wrapped in tissue paper and in boxes of 25!

    As for who sold or distributed these early SA buckles, goodness knows.

    The whole point of these ramblings is that it is my suggestion to be wary when on the early unmarked SA buckles, a collector stumbles down the hard and winding path of confirming dare I say, "von Hagen ears".

    Regards and best wishes,

    David

  5. #14

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    Thank you so much for your kind words, information and "rambling".

    This type of comments are very important for beginners like myself.
    (I would even like to call them extremely important)


    "The whole point of these ramblings is that it is my suggestion to be wary when on the early unmarked SA buckles, a collector stumbles down the hard and winding path of confirming dare I say, "von Hagen ears"."

    I will take this words with me on my journey. (And the other words too of course)

    Frontbann
    I was not aware of this badges existence so I will read this thread later today.

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