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F Herder rarity.

Article about: Hi, Could anyone please tell me the rarity according to the Mcsarr scale of the maker F. Herder please. I'm torn between purchasing an example by this maker or a Carl Schmidt SA dagger pendi

  1. #1

    Default F Herder rarity.

    Hi, Could anyone please tell me the rarity according to the Mcsarr scale of the maker F. Herder please. I'm torn between purchasing an example by this maker or a Carl Schmidt SA dagger pending condition. The price on the Herder is £430. Do you think this is a fair price?. Many thanks in advance, Scott.Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

    Default

    Choose the one that appeals to you the most. F.Herder is a "3" ..and Schmidt is a "4" both very common.

    Look for condition first..and not price. Blade shows age greying and spots.
    Not sure of the grip ...which looks like it was re varnished..which is not consistent with the condition of the rest of the dagger. Could be the lighting also giving it that impression.
    The upper crossguard looks like a later type guard having some plating loss and not early. The lower guard and tang nut have a shine to it..which the upper guard does not.
    I would request better photos under a different angle or position....as thy seem to be washed out a bit. Do this and be very sure before you purchase. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3
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    The grip looks somewhat "fixed".. Maybe its just me being sceptical...
    Collect ROA, Cossack, Schuma and other WW2 Volunteer militaria.

    "Be Humble and kind, for you may find that it was Odin you entertained"

  5. #4
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    Hi Scott,

    Herder is known for its very dark grip and anodization, but i have the same feeling as Larry has about the grip, looks like a varnished one.
    I think the guards are ok.
    If you wanna compare it with a textbook one, here some pics of one i owned, or just follow the link to my former post here at WR:
    Early SA Dienstdolch by F. Herder A.S.
    Cheers,
    Ger
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  6. #5

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    £430 is an awfully stiff price for either one . As said, they are both common makers. I would worry more about the upper guard looking to be a mismatch with the lower guard. It seems to have a distinctly different appearance than the rest of it -particularly in the 1st set of photos. The grip may simply have been over polished with wood polish or oil and may have left an unusual look to the wood, but it is difficult to tell from photos.

    In any case, I think that £430 is quite alot to be asking for this piece. $450 would be more amenable in my opinion. It is a common Herder with a couple of questionable aspects to it and definitely not worth full or premium price.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  7. #6

    Default

    Hi, thanks for the info guys. Unfortunately here in the UK it seems to be quite hard to find an SA dagger sub £400 unless it has a major defect. I have now received some photos of the Schmidt dagger which i will post here for your appraisal. My initial thoughts are that it isn't as nice as the Herder but i'm so unsure at what i'm looking at. this one is priced at £395.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #7

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    Quite impressive there is crossgrain present..and for that price and the decent condition it is is in..I think you have done well.!! Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #8

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    Now the Carl Schmidt is a one looker. No problems and in fine condition. Of the 2, there is no doubt which one would be My choice...
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #9

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    Thankyou chaps for the valued replies to my questions. To wrap this up, i have purchased the Schmidt dagger at the bargain price (uk) of £300 inc postage. The vendor concluded that it wasn't the best example he had ever had so would i be interested in it at this price. It didn't take me long to reach a decision. I will post some detailed pics when i receive her. Many thanks, Scott.

  11. #10
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    You did well on the Schmidt, that is a rare one to find a 9 on the list of Ralph Siegert, produced +/- 1000 pieces
    Cheers,
    Ger
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